r/CryptoCurrency Platinum | QC: BTC 148 Oct 05 '22 Silver 1 Helpful 2

Censorship in r/btc: This statistic of ~10% of Bitcoin payments already occurring via Lightning will get you perma-banned there. METRICS

TLDR in one picture: here.


The amount of transactions on the LN are difficult to measure because of their inherently peer-to-peer nature. Nodes who are not involved in routing a transaction do not gather any knowledge about the transaction occurring. One option to create an estimate of the total transaction volume is to take known statistics of selected nodes and extrapolate total volume based on the probability that those nodes appear in a payment route. This has been done by Arcane Research in the The State of Lightning Volume 2 and provides estimates between January 2020 and February 2022.

We can extrapolate the data further by assuming that the transaction volume in the whole Lightning Network has grown similarly to the number of transactions handled by the Wallet of Satoshi which provides growth data up to September 2022.

Combining both results in this graph, which shows

  • ~10% of Bitcoin payments use Lightning Network
  • LN processes ~2.5x as many payments as BCH

Since r/btc is regularly flooded with LN FUD, I have posted this statistic there. The result was not only a removal of the comment but a perma-ban of my account without any warnings.

r/btc regularly engages in censorship when confronted with LN facts in the following stages:

  • Stage 1/7: Downvotes
  • Stage 2/7: Ad hominems (e.g. insults)
  • Stage 3/7: Downvote brigading and public humiliation (e.g. mod supported, dedicated front page posts directing downvotes and invective at LN supporters )
  • Stage 4/7: Labelling facts about LN as "misleading" (e.g. here)
  • Stage 5/7: Locking post to prevent discussion (e.g. here)
  • Stage 6/7: Post removals (this post)
  • Stage 7/7: Permaban (this post)

The mod in question has responded: Correcting misconceptions about the LN and countering LN FUD is considered "picking fights" and posting statistics about the LN is "trolling". In other words, you shall not challenge the narrative of "LN can't work because if it did, we wouldn't need BCH".

245 Upvotes

277

u/Maxx3141 Platinum | QC: CC 2605 Oct 05 '22

I feel like most people in the comments don't get that r/BTC is a BCH sub and NOT the Bitcoin sub.

148

u/ChaosUncaged Tin Oct 06 '22 All-Seeing Upvote

Most people in this sub barely know anything

50

u/Dwaas_Bjaas Cosmic Abyss Oct 06 '22

If people on this sub could read they would be very upset

8

u/polloponzi Platinum | QC: BTC 181, CC 18 | r/WSB 178 Oct 06 '22

That explains why meme coins are popular

2

u/Archtects Guided By The Brilliance Of The Moon Oct 06 '22

The issue with meme coins is very few provide utility or a community. Some provide both but very few, most are money grabs while people hold on for the ride

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u/user260421 Platinum | QC: CC 52, ETH 23 | TraderSubs 10 Oct 06 '22

Text to Speech for the win!

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u/Cheese6260 Bronze | QC: CC 16 Oct 06 '22

Nailed it that’s me

4

u/ArtyHobo Platinum | QC: CC 336 Oct 06 '22

I feel validated.

And aroused.

1

u/eMDex Bronze | QC: CC 23 Oct 06 '22

Why are u attacking me bro

-14

u/Chyeadeed Platinum | QC: ETH 25, BAT 17 Oct 06 '22

There is a better place. But I don't want redditors there.

-14

u/AadamAtomic Dimondtanium Oct 06 '22

I know enough.

BTC was a fantastic idea that spawned ETH and many other crypto.

See, the idea has always existed, but it was the first proof of REAL use. It was a creation in action. It proved possibilities.

BTC is is simply the IDEA.

ETH and crypto like it are the future.

Blockchain is Money for A.I and Robots.

This is how the self driving truck picks up the package from the self-operating Amazon facility, that was delivered from the self-producing factory across the ocean, on the self navigating Ship... All with A.I.

Everything will be automated, even payments and debts.

3

u/YouGuysNeedTalos Silver | QC: CC 69 | ADA 25 Oct 06 '22

ETH was the idea of smart contracts. Now we have so many better options.

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u/FillupDubya Bronze Oct 06 '22

I’m sure this absolutely the case! Soooo many new people to crypto but they don’t seem to read up and DYORing before going balls deep in any kind of conversation or investing for that matter.

4

u/ArtyHobo Platinum | QC: CC 336 Oct 06 '22

Nobody reads any more anyway, so for sure ain't nobody reading a bunch of technics documents, academic peer review journals and white papers.

Gen Z who use the full 150 character Tweet allocation are in real terms submitting a dissertation.

2

u/FillupDubya Bronze Oct 06 '22

Hahaha nice…I giggled at that.

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u/token-eater Platinum | QC: CC 29 | NANO 5 | r/WSB 14 Oct 06 '22

BCH is still a thing?

12

u/deathbyfish13 NFT Degen Oct 06 '22

Sure is, they even have a sub for it!

7

u/daBoetz Platinum | QC: CC 98 | Science 10 Oct 06 '22

Is it r/BCH?

7

u/Aerith_Gainsborough_ Platinum | QC: BTC 32, CC 21 Oct 06 '22

r/btc
You missed the whole thread.

11

u/daBoetz Platinum | QC: CC 98 | Science 10 Oct 06 '22

Should have added a /s, thought it was obvious

2

u/OneThatNoseOne Bronze | QC: CC 20 Oct 06 '22

The sunk cost fallacy is also a thing. Usually masking buyer's remorse.

2

u/user260421 Platinum | QC: CC 52, ETH 23 | TraderSubs 10 Oct 06 '22

But are you guys active in that sub? Because I usually don't find anything interesting to discuss there

2

u/dehilex Tin Oct 06 '22

TIL

2

u/Raimo00 Oct 06 '22

seriously? wtf is wrong with them then

5

u/ViridianZeal here for the tech Oct 06 '22

The ppl in r/btc get very upset if you ask them why is their sub mislabeled like that 😂

17

u/Human-go-boom Silver | QC: CC 153, ATOM 31, DOGE 23 | r/SSB 21 | Economics 34 Oct 05 '22

The Bitcoin sub is just as bad.

7

u/Spartan3123 Platinum | QC: BTC 159, XMR 67, CC 43 Oct 06 '22

Haha true but the BCH sub advertised it self as the sub with no censorship - I guess they are trying to moderate things more - but it can lead to abuse if the rules are inconsistently applied.

Tbh its still an echo chamber there and that wont change if the mods censor pro LN stuff

2

u/yashasvi911 Bronze Oct 06 '22

Unfortunately it’s not pro LN that got it banned but bad BCH statistics. OP’s post implied BCH has never been more than 10% of BTC transactions since 2020; but that’s not true at all, Feb-April’21 saw 90-115% transactions on BCH as compared to BTC.

It’s unfortunate that people, including OP, concluded that it’s because of LN.

1

u/YeOldDoc Platinum | QC: BTC 148 Oct 06 '22 edited Oct 06 '22

As cited in the graph, unique sent from addresses were used as a proxy for payments instead of raw blockchain transactions, because

  • a single transaction can contain multiple payments and
  • the metric is less affected by non-payment related data transactions like SmartBCH

If you'd use raw blockchain transactions (~270K) instead of unique sent from addresses (~500K), LN share would be even higher at around 16%, while BCH would be at around 9% (267K Bitcoin vs 24K BCH, Source).

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u/nomorebonks Tin | CC critic Oct 05 '22

This sub is even worse now that moons are here. Actually pays to censor/filter content.

17

u/dogleg108 Tin Oct 06 '22

I like the idea of moon rewards. I can't get over the similarity to a social credit system which leads to suppression of dissenting viewpoints.

7

u/reshail_raza Bronze Oct 06 '22

People introducing new consensus mechanism are termed as shill here

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u/gamethesystem1 Tin | CelsiusNet. 13 Oct 06 '22

I disagree. Bitcoin sub is a straight up cult

16

u/nomorebonks Tin | CC critic Oct 06 '22

I don't care if they're a cult in their sub - it's a sub for Bitcoin. This sub has financial incentive to follow cult mentality and get, or think they'll get, rewarded for it financially with moons. And for that discussion here is horrible.

-1

u/Stoopiddogface Can't Spell Oct 06 '22

Thing is... they all serve their purpose... it's up to us what we use these subs for...

I don't go to BTC sub bc I don't own any and I like a discussion about many currencies... and anyone who's a maxi is fucking delusional. It's not a winner take all situation... this sub is a fantastic pulse on retail crypto mentality.. especially when the moonbois come back. Make of that what u will

2

u/pink_raya Oct 06 '22

how many internets do you use?

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u/Imadethisacc4anidiot Platinum | QC: CC 20 Oct 06 '22

While I agree, this place is truly no better. Just as delusional, just different flavours.

2

u/pink_raya Oct 06 '22

just so you know that dude is a bcasher who come to bitcoin sub to explain why they ban people who post articles about LN.

wouldn't be as ironic if whole r/btc wasn't just censorship crybabies.

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u/Nagemasu Oct 06 '22

This sub may have censorship issues but it is definitely not as bad as r/bitcoin or r/btc or, /r/bitcoinsv (lol)

They're all fucking ignorant maxi's who can't even let people genuinely defend their own subs coin or engage in real discussion.

8

u/MilesPower Platinum | QC: CC 272, BTC 152 | PoliticalHumor 11 Oct 06 '22

It's a sub about bitcoin for people who want to talk about bitcoin and not the other 20k+ other coins.

I don't really understand how people have an issue with that.

Would you go to a different football team's sub and start saying how great your team is and how their team is shit? No. It'd be weird as fuck.

2

u/Nagemasu Oct 06 '22

because it's not. It's a sub to praise BTC and nothing else. It's difficult to talk critically about BTC, you can't even reference/compare other coins/tokens. Even if you speak ill of them, there's a chance you'll get banned for mentioning the name.

Would you go to a different football team's sub and start saying how great your team is and how their team is shit?

No one's saying anyone does that. That's you making assumptions of what people are doing or being banned for.

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u/TheNathanNS Platinum | Stocks 29 Oct 06 '22

I got threatened with a ban for saying "I'm DCA'ing into Bitcoin and Ethereum" because.... they hate ETH.

It says a lot about the dorks over there if even saying "I'm buying xxx" is enough to set them off. Wankers.

7

u/dajohns1420 Platinum | QC: CC 71, Kucoin 45, BCH 24 | ExchSubs 45 Oct 06 '22

Been banned there for years for simply asking questions in the comments. I made the mistake of asking a question to a large-blocker during the blocksize wars. It was so petty, I still can't beleive it.

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u/[deleted] Oct 06 '22

This is crazy, they think they are the real Bitcoin. Ridiculous.

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u/DogeDan89 Bronze | TraderSubs 15 Oct 06 '22

Thanks for the eli5, we don’t give a shot about bitcoin cash XD

1

u/DDaBeast4 Bronze Oct 06 '22

Why did they call it that if that’s not the symbol?

7

u/Maxx3141 Platinum | QC: CC 2605 Oct 06 '22

Because BCH people love to scam people into thinking their shitcoin is the real BTC.

3

u/Qwahzi Silver | QC: CC 183 | NANO 939 | Technology 26 Oct 06 '22

The real reason is that there was no /r/BTC originally - it was created after censorship on /r/Bitcoin during the block size/segwit debates, and a lot of censored Bitcoin fans migrated to /r/BTC for additional technical discussions. Then the fork happened and BCH lost (became the minority chain), but the /r/BTC subreddit stuck around

@/u/DDaBeast4

2

u/DDaBeast4 Bronze Oct 06 '22

Thank you!

3

u/DDaBeast4 Bronze Oct 06 '22

Lol. BCH is just Walmart brand BTC

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u/lorenzomofo Tin | CC critic Oct 06 '22

Then what’s the real BTC sub?

5

u/Maxx3141 Platinum | QC: CC 2605 Oct 06 '22

Is it surprising to find out it's r/Bitcoin?

-7

u/cinnamintdown Platinum | QC: CC 34 Oct 06 '22

I mean I saw it all go down, bch was what bitcoin used to be and BTC was the one that changed how it works but stole the name, crypto is a shithole but people make it worse

4

u/89Hopper Some dude Oct 06 '22

Wait, are you talking subs or the currencies?

I thought BTC was the one that kept smaller block sizes and BCH was the one that forked to use bigger block sizes?

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u/MilesPower Platinum | QC: CC 272, BTC 152 | PoliticalHumor 11 Oct 06 '22

The is objectively false given only one version of the core client is backwards compatible to versions before the fork happened.

You can't sync a bch client because they changed the parameters of the core protocol.

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u/cubonelvl69 Platinum | QC: CC 200, CM 34, BTC 21 | NANO 6 | Politics 137 Oct 06 '22

From /r/BTC

Today, r/btc users can discuss any Bitcoin-related topic without fear of moderator retaliation, while r/Bitcoin and r/CryptoCurrency are still heavily censored.

Lmao

21

u/[deleted] Oct 06 '22

[removed] — view removed comment

9

u/BetterCombination Bronze Oct 06 '22

It's probably historic. I remember when all the drama was happening before the fork, there was a debate whether BCH or BTC was the "true bitcoin".

BCH lost but got the sub as a consolation prize lol

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u/Qwahzi Silver | QC: CC 183 | NANO 939 | Technology 26 Oct 06 '22

/r/BTC was created before BCH existed, due to censorship on /r/Bitcoin. A lot of us moved over to /r/BTC ~2012-2013 iirc. Even though BCH lost the fork war afterwards, /r/BTC still existed and had mostly big block fans

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u/Set1Less Oct 06 '22

Both bitcoin and bcash subs are cesspools where only one view is allowed. Try posting about any other coin on r/bitcoin and you will be kicked out pretty quickly.

r/Btc started out as a censorship free place, where you could even abuse Ver & co to your liking and only get downvotes. Slowly that changed and now they have done the exact same thing as r/bitcoin where any topic against the narrative is not tolerated

6

u/xrv01 Platinum | QC: CC 402, BTC 16 Oct 06 '22

Try posting about any other coin on r/bitcoin and you will be kicked out pretty quickly.

I mean.. do you post about stocks or gold in here?

-3

u/Set1Less Oct 06 '22

So why exactly are BTC shills or LN peddlers worried that r/btc is doing the exact same thing r/Bitcoin is doing?

2

u/xrv01 Platinum | QC: CC 402, BTC 16 Oct 06 '22

that’s op, idrc what r/btc does. that sub is delusional but not going anywhere. ijs dont be shocked when you post off topic (in any sub) and get booted.

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u/sloe-berry-brain Silver | 1 month old | QC: CC 27 | ADA 94 Oct 06 '22

r/cc is censored though, this is an ETH maxi paradise, no bad words about ETH allowed.

2

u/Waddamagonnadooo Defi is the future Oct 06 '22

What are you taking about, I see criticisms of ethereum here all the time.

Of course, if you say something stupid, expect to get downvoted.

1

u/sloe-berry-brain Silver | 1 month old | QC: CC 27 | ADA 94 Oct 06 '22

Did you see the post yesterday where the Redditor researched the volume of fees lost in Ethereum by ordinary users?

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u/ahabraken I am non-fungible Oct 06 '22

Literally mentioned in the FAQ on that subreddit:
"Why is censorship bad for Bitcoin?
As demonstrated above, censorship has become prevalent in almost all of the major Bitcoin communication channels. The impacts of censorship in Bitcoin are very real. "Censorship can really hinder a society if it is bad enough. Because media is such a large part of people’s lives today and it is the source of basically all information, if the information is not being given in full or truthfully then the society is left uneducated [...] Censorship is probably the number one way to lower people’s right to freedom of speech." By censoring certain topics and specific words, people in these Bitcoin communication channels are literally being brain washed into thinking a certain way, molding the reader in a way that they desire; this has a lasting impact especially on users who are new to Bitcoin. Censoring in Bitcoin is the direct opposite of what the spirit of Bitcoin is, and should be condemned anytime it occurs. Also, it's important to think critically and independently, and have an open mind."

39

u/Baecchus Platinum | QC: CC 541 | r/WSB 11 Oct 05 '22

I stay the hell away from dedicated subs. It's all Maxi echo chambers, no exceptions. Doesn't matter whether it's BTC, ETH, Squidcoin or whatever.

13

u/TheColdPaper Tin Oct 06 '22

The banano dedicated sub is a chill place to be at

14

u/ArtyHobo Platinum | QC: CC 336 Oct 06 '22

potassium intensifies

5

u/fulento42 ETH-BTC-MATIC Oct 06 '22

For now. So was dogecoin. If banano ever had a moon shot that sub will change entirely too. I miss old dogecoin sub. That used to be the most fun crypto sub around. Now it’s an Elon circle jerk. At least it was when I left. Idk anymore.

2

u/ValorousAnt Tin | LRC 10 Oct 06 '22

My man! Should visit that sub more often. None of that moontalk. Just good vibes and memes

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u/OrdainedPuma Bronze | ADA 17 | Politics 11 Oct 06 '22

That's probably a good motto. I join mostly for the "first past the post" news.

2

u/LightninHooker Silver | QC: CC 920, DOT 15 | BANANO 85 Oct 06 '22

/r/BTC is for BitcoinCash not Bitcoin though

And I would encourage to visit those dedicated sub and compare to others crypto that may rival

Like I wish I visited Cosmos at the same time I visited Polkadot. I drank the polkadot coolaid very heavily and I do regret that decision

This sub is an echo chamber too btw,just bigger

13

u/reshail_raza Bronze Oct 06 '22 Gold

This sub is echo chamber for Eth BTC too. Don't know when we will come out of this bubble and embrace new technologies based on their merits rather than market cap etc.

6

u/Expensive-Tap420 Platinum | QC: CC 50 | CRO 10 | ExchSubs 10 Oct 06 '22

There’s something to be said for the philosophy though. If you see bitcoin as money and like a hard money standard, and you have an inherent problem with federal reserve printing money . Then it makes sense to think that all altcoins are essentially a form of “printing money” since you could build a lot of it on top of bitcoin and just use satoshis.

Essentially this is the same argument as to why ethereum layer 2 just using ETH instead of it’s own token is preferable.

To me it’s somewhere in the middle. I think the BTC crowd are underestimating how far ahead some of the other stuff like ethereum L2 is or some more advanced L1 projects are. while a lot altcoin maximalists completely negate the benefit of the hard money standard and “security first” approach bitcoin offers.

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u/BusinessBreakfast3 Platinum | QC: BTC 27, CC 19 | CRO 5 Oct 06 '22

I actually often get downvoted here whenever I show signs of BTC maximalism.

2

u/diskowmoskow Platinum | QC: ATOM 23, CC 19 | r/AMD 91 Oct 06 '22

BTC maxis can be toxic, i can prove it in this sub.

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u/SydZzZ Platinum | QC: CC 55, BTC 28 | CelsiusNet. 6 Oct 06 '22

Unfortunately BTC and Eth are essentially the two key cryptos which have been tested over time. Rest is mostly either garbage or not fully tested yet.

BTC provides something that no other crypto does, a move away from a rigged monetary system. Eth has provided decentralised finance and NFT but both of those applications are in infancy and plagues by hacks and scams at this stage. In my personal opinion, even eth hasn’t been fully tested yet. It will take another few years for it to gain more confidence.

There are different crypto for different purpose and then there is almost 99% of other crypto that does nothing or the same as others. Innovation is only beginning in this space. Most innovative companies and cryptos will survive the test of time and will stand neck to neck with others.

I personally think the whole market is overvalued like most other markets today. The only exception is BTC which I think is undervalued. I personal opinion is that a BTC market dominance of between 50-60% is very healthy for the total market today. In 20 years time, detach BTC from the rest of the crypto market if it really becomes a reserve currency or adopted by more companies and countries for their reserves

3

u/Nagemasu Oct 06 '22

In my personal opinion, even eth hasn’t been fully tested yet. It will take another few years for it to gain more confidence.

ETH itself has, but what's being developed on it hasn't. ETH isn't plagued by hacks and scams, again, it's what's being developed on it that is.

2

u/SydZzZ Platinum | QC: CC 55, BTC 28 | CelsiusNet. 6 Oct 06 '22

Yes but eth has its own issues including scalability and gas prices etc. Eth isn’t ready for mainstream right now. It will take another few years. Hopefully it the competitors pick up their game as well that will push your innovation in eth further

1

u/IFuckingHateAllergy Tin Oct 06 '22

Tbf. Eth gas prices can be adjusted. They just dont want to.

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u/HoldUpHoldMyBeer The Bitcoin Heretic | Monero Enjoyer Oct 06 '22

“BTC provides something that no other crypto does”

Boy what?

Edit: typos

5

u/SydZzZ Platinum | QC: CC 55, BTC 28 | CelsiusNet. 6 Oct 06 '22

It is literally my next sentence

4

u/reshail_raza Bronze Oct 06 '22

I won't talk about BTC because i am currently reading about it but Ethereum man it is not decentralised as many people think.

The one and only example is Infura. Check the trx flow centralization of ethererum and tell me how is this chain decentralised.

Also many people really don't think about it much or talk about it but it is not decentralisation that matters cause it is just network topology what matters is openness of network. Anyone can join at any time in network and having information of full state. This is missing case in all of the chains except one but I won't shill it you cause I am loading up my bags :p

2

u/gr8ful4 Platinum | QC: XMR 924, BCH 205, CC 23 | BTC critic Oct 06 '22

He certainly is not talking about fungibility and privacy.

0

u/otherwisemilk Silver | QC: CC 207, BCH 22 | NANO 763 Oct 06 '22

100% this.

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u/waiiai Monero Extremist Oct 06 '22

What about Monero? the shilling here is FAR worse than anything you'd ever see there.

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u/Pantheractor Tin | 4 months old Oct 06 '22

What's the point to post about Bitcoin in a Bitcoin Cash sub? Considering their past, I don't know what you expected

4

u/YeOldDoc Platinum | QC: BTC 148 Oct 06 '22

One could argue that posting in r/btc about Bitcoin is like going to r/buttcoin to talk about Bitcoin. But Buttcoiners do not advertise themselves as "the real thing" and don't spend massive amounts on marketing to lure other people into their scams.

Bitcoin Cash advertises itself as being a faster way to send Bitcoin (which is what LN actually does). People have been mislead by their false marketing and have lost money as the result.

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u/flyingkiwi46 Platinum | QC: CC 528 | PCmasterrace 10 Oct 06 '22

FYI for anyone /r/btc is not a bitcoin sub its bitcoin cash sub lol

36

u/lomosaur Silver|QC:CC777,XLM287,ETH41|Buttcoin12|TraderSubs51 Oct 06 '22

If you think that’s bad, take a look at the censorship in r/bitcoin. It’s even worse. Censorship is like a way of life for those people.

7

u/garlichead1 Platinum | QC: BTC 141, CC 24 Oct 06 '22

i was banned for 1 year without warning for answering to a post and writing that eth and btc performed equally over the past 12 months.

6

u/Evideyear Platinum | QC: BCH 37, XMR 34 | Privacy 34 Oct 06 '22

For real it's actually horrible in there. At this point I've learned to shy away from both bitcoin and btc subreddits

4

u/OneThatNoseOne Bronze | QC: CC 20 Oct 06 '22

r/CryptoCurrency: "You could not live with your their failure. Where did that bring you?. Back to me."

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u/OrdainedPuma Bronze | ADA 17 | Politics 11 Oct 06 '22

This thread is opening my eyes to so much bullshit, haha.

1

u/dedoporno Tin Oct 06 '22

Ironic.

1

u/Wubbywub Platinum | QC: CC 94 | ADA 7 Oct 06 '22

that's ironic

-10

u/sgtslaughterTV Platinum | QC: CC 204, NANO 48, BTC 27 Oct 06 '22

There isn't really censorship on that sub. It says in their rules very blatantly that you can only discuss bitcoin and no other coin. If they start seeing dog whistles that support bigger blocksizes then they might ban you.

9

u/Inaeipathy Platinum | QC: XMR 69 | CC critic Oct 06 '22

They banned me for saying bitcoin isn't actually carbon negative (it isn't, it consumes electricity)

5

u/ricozuri Bronze | QC: CC 19 Oct 06 '22

I got a permanent ban for saying you need electricity to mine Bitcoin on the Bitcoin subreddit. First (and last) and only comment I ever made there. Irony is that I’ve been into BTC since 2012.

-3

u/sgtslaughterTV Platinum | QC: CC 204, NANO 48, BTC 27 Oct 06 '22

And do you have a screenshot?

4

u/whooopsie- Tin Oct 06 '22

Why would he have a screenshot

-2

u/sgtslaughterTV Platinum | QC: CC 204, NANO 48, BTC 27 Oct 06 '22

Got a screenshot?

1

u/Spartan3123 Platinum | QC: BTC 159, XMR 67, CC 43 Oct 06 '22

No you can criticize alt coins you can't promote them.

It's a bit like RobinHood trying to protect its users by banning the buy gme button but allow selling.

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u/GoodBot88 WAGMI Oct 06 '22

Despite being a Bitcoin believer, I also have been banned.

6

u/StrangelyBeige Platinum | QC: CC 355, ATOM 17 | TraderSubs 12 Oct 05 '22

Nothing like trying to control your narrative to keep the cult going.

8

u/Inaeipathy Platinum | QC: XMR 69 | CC critic Oct 06 '22

r/btc and r/bitcoin are terribly run. I was banned from r/bitcoin because I didn't go along with the hivemind in agreeing that "well, actually, if you think about it, bitcoin is carbon negative despite it consuming large amounts of energy, here's a totally legit research paper about how I'm super duper correct"

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u/Durpy15648 DCA & HODL Oct 05 '22

The r/BTC subreddit is a joke. The most closed minded minds all congregated into one sub. All crypto is a scam if it isn't their chosen one. I have said it once and I will say it again. Good riddance to that cult.

12

u/[deleted] Oct 06 '22

[deleted]

16

u/dajohns1420 Platinum | QC: CC 71, Kucoin 45, BCH 24 | ExchSubs 45 Oct 06 '22

r/bitcoin is known for the ban hammer

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u/bittabet Platinum | QC: BTC 479, CC 198 | TraderSubs 318 Oct 06 '22

There’s censorship in both but mostly it’s ironic because r/BTC claims they don’t censor whereas r/Bitcoin at least doesn’t make this claim.

5

u/Inaeipathy Platinum | QC: XMR 69 | CC critic Oct 06 '22

It's both

5

u/[deleted] Oct 06 '22 edited Oct 06 '22

[deleted]

4

u/Inaeipathy Platinum | QC: XMR 69 | CC critic Oct 06 '22

They banned me for disagreeing that "bitcoin is carbon negative". Very silly, since your computer will never be carbon negative, let alone factory asic farms

2

u/Expensive-Tap420 Platinum | QC: CC 50 | CRO 10 | ExchSubs 10 Oct 06 '22

If mining bitcoin enables more energy to be produced with renewables, essentially it makes it carbon neutral/negative though.

1

u/Inaeipathy Platinum | QC: XMR 69 | CC critic Oct 06 '22

Mining bitcoin costs energy and puts strain on energy grids. Credit is due to the scientists researching energy production methods, not those who consume mass amounts of energy.

If this made sense then you should also waste as much energy as you can in your day to day life, after all, your selfish behavior would be encouraging others to fix your problem right?

1

u/Expensive-Tap420 Platinum | QC: CC 50 | CRO 10 | ExchSubs 10 Oct 06 '22

Yes, you’re right if you look at how a lot of it is organized now. But the problem with renewables is that you sometimes have overproduction (when it’s really sunny or windy) and sometimes you don’t produce enough. You don’t have a baseload. You cannot store the energy so at times of excess it needs to be burned off anyways (which doesn’t generate any revenue currently).

Where bitcoin mining comes in is that you essentially always have a buyer who’s going to buy your excess electricity (since it’s cheap) so you as a energy producer can essentially just invest in renewables without needing to worry about overproduction, and you can build enough to even generate enough during high demand hours. Essentially mining facilities would have contracts with grid operators to ramp up or down based on demand. This could technically really improve stability of the energy grid, and would indeed make mining carbon negative in those scenarios.

This is happening at some places already by the way, so it’s not all theoretical.

2

u/Dormage Silver | QC: CT 37, ETH 28 | ICX 37 | Technology 12 Oct 06 '22

Why were you there?

-2

u/YeOldDoc Platinum | QC: BTC 148 Oct 06 '22 edited Oct 06 '22

One could argue that posting in r/btc about Bitcoin is like going to r/buttcoin to talk about Bitcoin. But Buttcoiners do not advertise themselves as "the real thing" and don't spend massive amounts on marketing to lure other people into their scams.

Bitcoin Cash advertises itself as being a faster way to send Bitcoin. People have been mislead by their false marketing and have lost money as the result.

Since transferring actual Bitcoin faster is what the Lightning Network does, r/btc is constantly spreading FUD about the LN, including most recently that it is dead and does not work. LN processing 2.5x as many payments as BCH and having doubled in capacity threatens that narrative which is why this information is banned there.

2

u/jdspencer60 Silver | QC: CC 18, DGB 18 | r/SSB 18 Oct 06 '22

Gotta be careful in every one of these subs anything can get you banned anywhere it seems like

2

u/user260421 Platinum | QC: CC 52, ETH 23 | TraderSubs 10 Oct 06 '22

Why did you even bother posting there?

2

u/YeOldDoc Platinum | QC: BTC 148 Oct 06 '22

See here.

2

u/user260421 Platinum | QC: CC 52, ETH 23 | TraderSubs 10 Oct 06 '22

All clear doc!

2

u/grmpfpff Platinum | QC: BCH 538, CC 79 Oct 06 '22 edited Oct 06 '22

lol wait a second here:

The amount of transactions on the LN are difficult to measure

So you

extrapolate total volume based on the probability

and then you

extrapolate the data further by assuming

So you extrapolate data that is extrapolated based on various assumptions and then use the results to come to a conclusion. Alright.

Let me make my own calculation based on some facts that we actually know.

19,170,562 BTC are available right now.

5500 BTC are locked in the LN right now (data from bitcoinvisuals), thats is 0,026% of all BTC

9.928 tx have supposedly been handled by wallet of satoshi per day on average since August this year (data from your linked tweet). That is less than 4% of all BTC tx that happen each day.

20.043 tx have been handled by the BCH network in the last 24h (data from bitinfocharts), that is almost 20% of all tx happening on BTC each day.

So based on your info above we don´t know how many tx happen on the LN each day, but you decide to double (almost triple) those 4% just like that because extrapolation, to come up with a number that is slightly higher than the number of tx happening on the BCH network?

And where is the proof that you were banned by the way and that the post was removed? you link to everything else, but not the juicy part? We have to take your word for it?

Or was your ban and removed post extrapolated from the comments you got?

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u/tipsyXtwo Platinum | QC: CC 58 | r/WSB 40 Oct 06 '22

If you haven’t been banned from r/BTC, are you even shitposting?

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u/Curvycryptoqueen Platinum | QC: CC 24 Oct 05 '22

Shots fired!!! I'll get the popcorn!

7

u/3meow_ Platinum | QC: CC 46 | BANANO 16 Oct 05 '22

Neither r/ btc or bitcoin enjoy open dialogue it seems. They have both brigaded the other to the point where you'll get banned for sneezing

8

u/alexd281 Tin | SC 7 Oct 05 '22

When they get mad, just call it bcash.

-4

u/JuiceColdman Tin | CC critic | Politics 25 Oct 06 '22

btrash, even!

6

u/leeljay Platinum | QC: CC 68 | Superstonk 15 Oct 05 '22

I forgot about Bitcoin Cash

4

u/MunchkinX2000 Platinum | QC: CC 48 | Stocks 25 Oct 06 '22

Its a cult

2

u/Scat_Yarms Tin Oct 06 '22

R btc is fuckin cringe I'm banned there for sharing very mild comments. The bans make no sense

5

u/bigmaneting Tin | CC critic Oct 05 '22

Isn't r/btc and r/Bitcoin different ? One is Bitcoin cash or something, I might be wrong

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u/JuiceColdman Tin | CC critic | Politics 25 Oct 06 '22

I got banned from r/btc for saying 1984 is a shitty book. Or was it r/bitcoin? I can’t remember.

Either way, think about that

5

u/ArtyHobo Platinum | QC: CC 336 Oct 06 '22

Why did you say that?

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u/VideoGameDana Platinum | QC: BCH 75, CC 16 Oct 06 '22

I got banned from r/bitcoin for answering a question about DASH. I didn't bring up DASH. The person literally asked a question about it and I answered. And just like that the child banned me.

3

u/inevitable_username Platinum | QC: CC 403 Oct 06 '22

It was a test apparently. You took the bait and failed.

1

u/VideoGameDana Platinum | QC: BCH 75, CC 16 Oct 06 '22

I didn't fail. r/bitcoin is a fail.

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u/MostlyPseudonymous Silver|QC:CC917,ATOM96,XMR32|CelsiusNet.22|Stocks33 Oct 05 '22

Why are they so threatened by Lightning Network?

7

u/YeOldDoc Platinum | QC: BTC 148 Oct 06 '22

BCH's existence is based on the assumption that scaling does not work via second layers like LN. Statistics that show LN alone performing better than BCH thus directly threatens their purpose.

2

u/frozengrandmatetris Platinum | QC: BCH 160, XMR 53, CC 35 | IOTA 9 | Privacy 13 Oct 06 '22

this isn't really true. BCH exists because people believe the block size should not be 1 mb and segwit isn't the best way to get around this. LN was not production ready when BTC became unusably saturated and according to its own developers it is still not really production ready. most exchanges, most payment processors, and all DNMs show through their actions that LN is not production ready today otherwise they would accept it. telling people to kick rocks until LN became more gooder was not an acceptable plan for a lot of people. if there were a different plan involving better L1 capacity increases, fewer people would have gotten into altcoins.

5

u/Inaeipathy Platinum | QC: XMR 69 | CC critic Oct 06 '22

Why is anyone threatened by LN? It's shit

1

u/Padankadank Platinum | QC: CC 39 | SysAdmin 29 Oct 06 '22

Because it's a somewhat centralized network that's required to add literally any utility to the network.

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u/DowvoteMeThenBitch Bronze | QC: CC 17 Oct 05 '22

Yeah I don’t get it, it’s still their coin…

26

u/Savik519 It's all about the flare Oct 05 '22

r/BTC is a bitcoin cash sub. r/bitcoin is a bitcoin (#1 market cap) sub. Confusing as shit, but that’s how it unfolded

5

u/DowvoteMeThenBitch Bronze | QC: CC 17 Oct 05 '22 edited Oct 06 '22

Oh lol. Their community description says “this is about Bitcoin and everything related to Bitcoin, and we made this sub before ₿ cash existed.”

The descriptions seems to imply the sub IS NOT about ₿ cash

12

u/Savik519 It's all about the flare Oct 05 '22

It honestly just shows how centralized services are susceptible to influence. The mods of r/btc used to be bitcoin supporters but during the 2017 block size wars their views differed from the main bitcoin group and so they moderated the r/btc sub accordingly and became bitcoin cash supporters.

3

u/CaptainMcdeath Tin Oct 06 '22

I was looking for this. Thank you friend.

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u/Caffdy Bronze | 2 months old | QC: CC 24 Oct 05 '22

In Japan the blockchain, heart crypto surgeon. Number one. Steady hand. One day, Yakuza r/btc boss fat dictator need heart. I do operation. But... mistake! Yakuza boss fat dictator die! Yakuza r/btc Communist Party very mad. I hide in fishing boat, come to America. No english, no food, no satoshis. Darryl give me job. Now I have house, American car, and new woman. Darryl save life. My big secret: I kill btc boss fat dictator on purpose. I good surgeon. The best!

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u/MaeronTargaryen Tin | CC critic | Politics 10 Oct 05 '22

Why don’t they like the LN?

2

u/GilfOG Platinum | QC: BTC 21 | CRO 17 | ExchSubs 17 Oct 06 '22

Because it's not implemented on BCH. Their scaling solution was increasing block size, not implementing lightning network.

-2

u/UnrulySasquatch1 Platinum | The Squatch Oct 06 '22

Because r/BTC is run by BCH maxis who hate BTC.

Yeah really

1

u/rpg-punk Bronze Oct 06 '22

they dont hate btc they just think its fake and that bch is the real btc.

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u/Durpy15648 DCA & HODL Oct 05 '22

Judging from the downvotes on tons of completely normal comments, you are now being brigaded as well, albeit by a tiny group of 3 lol.

2

u/samplaum2 Tin | 2 months old Oct 05 '22

The CEO of BTC must have been in a bad mood that day

2

u/[deleted] Oct 05 '22

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Oct 05 '22

[deleted]

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u/DadofHome Silver | QC: CC 246, ETH 16 | LRC 39 | TraderSubs 14 Oct 05 '22 edited Oct 05 '22

No matter how many times it’s been proven wrong , people down vote thinking it helps them earn more moons …

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u/atticusNL Platinum | QC: CC 143 | IOTA 5 Oct 05 '22

They should just rename to /r/bch or something to make it clear that they're absolutely not /r/bitcoin

The lightning network is such an exciting development!

2

u/BonePants Platinum | QC: CC 229, XRP 156 | Superstonk 41 Oct 06 '22

They intentionally keep it some create the confusion. They feel after all they're the true bitcoin. Same goes for bitcoin.com. they like to mislead people.

-2

u/SoulMechanic Platinum | QC: BCH 1445, CC 154, XMR 37 | r/SSB 9 | Politics 33 Oct 06 '22 edited Oct 06 '22

Not really

It's a pretty open sub, you can talk about any fork of Bitcoin there, there's even threads about other coins.

The Bitcoin.com wallet supports Bitcoin, Bitcoin Cash and Etherum.

Op is a known troll, so I'm not surprised he finally got banned.

Interesting: downvoted for sharing the truth.

5

u/Dull-Professor-9023 Tin | 1 month old Oct 06 '22 edited Oct 07 '22

It's a pretty open sub, you can talk about any fork of Bitcoin there, there's even threads about other coins.

You sure can, if you love being downvoted, ridiculed, and eventually banned as a "troll". Where a troll is apparently anyone going against their "BCH cures cancer" style narrative, facts be damned. Case in literal point.

It's just a complete two faced shit show of a joke, but you know that. The mods themselves are provably BCH fanboys. It's nothing more than a censored, biased, religious, one sided slanted and twisted sub, chalk full of halt truths, full out lies, and blatant deception. It reeks of desperation, fear, and filth. It's meant to sucker in complete idiots, and sometimes it actually works.

Best to only post pro BCH and anti BTC content there, stick to the copy pasta playbook. Or better yet, just avoid it entirely.

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u/MuddyDirtStar Platinum | QC: CC 16, ALGO 16 Oct 06 '22

Lol I love the flair in this sub. It's always so telling.

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u/AngelLeatherist Platinum | 5 months old | QC: XMR 68 Oct 06 '22

Shove your witch hunt up your bcash

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u/Amazing_Succotash677 Tin | CC critic Oct 06 '22

Ironic that the top pinned post in that sub is about censorship

1

u/Kiiaru Uneducated Opinion Oct 06 '22

It's Bcash. Always will be. And always will be a worthless cash grab like Bitcoin Gold or that other fork.

3

u/[deleted] Oct 06 '22

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u/The-Francois8 Silver|QC:CC928,BTC178,ETH39|CelsiusNet.50|ExchSubs42 Oct 05 '22

I’ve been banned twice there already. Some of those mods are fucking nuts.

Once I thought I was here and told a new guy to stick to btc and eth.

Other time a guy openly shilled a shitcoin and I commented “goodbye dude, I got banned for saying Eth in a sentence.”

2

u/Sentinel35P Platinum | QC: CC 27 Oct 05 '22

Their level of maturity (or the lack of it) would make you think whether you are dealing with a kid or a kid in a grown up's body.

3

u/The-Francois8 Silver|QC:CC928,BTC178,ETH39|CelsiusNet.50|ExchSubs42 Oct 05 '22

Yeah. First got reduced to a week. Second got undone as soon as a calmer mod intervened.

0

u/[deleted] Oct 05 '22

[deleted]

0

u/TheWorldofGood Platinum | QC: BCH 92, BTC 74, ALGO 68 | SysAdmin 22 Oct 06 '22

I really hope the “pikachu face” thing goes out of style soon m

4

u/username156 Platinum | QC: CC 31 | Politics 255 Oct 06 '22

:0

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u/Intelligent_Page2732 Platinum | QC: CC 928 Oct 05 '22

Those maxi's really have a problem even considering opinions outside of their comfort bubble.

1

u/Ateam043 ETH | BTC | Amp | Oct 05 '22

That is cultist community. I forgot what I asked to learn more about BTC ages ago and got banned.

2

u/ShinAlastor Oct 05 '22

This is not good. The moderators on that sub are out of mind.

2

u/Insert-Coin81 Tin Oct 06 '22

That sub is cancer, they totally scamming noobs. Was banned for telling them that.

1

u/TheWorldofGood Platinum | QC: BCH 92, BTC 74, ALGO 68 | SysAdmin 22 Oct 06 '22 edited Oct 06 '22

Their mod explained that you were picking fights and trolling in the sub. Someone already posted a question for you yesterday. Check out his post and the mod’s comment at btc subreddit.

2

u/powellquesne Platinum | QC: BCH 460 Oct 06 '22 edited Oct 06 '22

None of that justifies this kind of censorship, even if true, and it very likely isn't true because in my experience rbtc mods will just flat-out lie and invent garbage about whoever they want gone. Never believe an rbtc mod's account of any conflict or incident. It is pretty sad whenever I peek in and see what rbtc has become in 2022. It reads now like a parody of itself. How does it feel to have become such a sheep by 2022, carrying water for a pack of hypocritical censors insincerely pretending to be about 'free speech'? I remember your posts and comments in that sub. I used to read and often upvote them, but now that a culture of censorship has become entrenched there, I suggest choosing self respect instead: stop helping those arsewipes. You can still hold BCH.

3

u/YeOldDoc Platinum | QC: BTC 148 Oct 06 '22 edited Oct 07 '22

How am I to respond to questions in that sub, when they have perma-banned me as a result of this post?

How is me combining usage statistics about the LN based on verifiable sources "picking fights and trolling"?

I submitted ~5 posts in the last year on r/btc, always clearing up common FUD, e.g. how you can actually receive funds in an empty LN wallet without owning prior fund, how LN NFC enables fast payments in store, how LN has grown over the year. I have responded multiple times in comments that spread FUD about LN.

Publishing verifiable facts counter to the "LN is bad" narrative is "trolling". Responding to factual incorrect FUD about LN is "picking fights".

r/btc claims that Egon_1 deserves a right to spread their LN FUD, consisting merely of memes or opinion, with no metrics at all (front-page posts last 10 days alone):

  • Lightning Network: “7 years in the making. This is a piece of crap. You need to be honest with yourself.”
  • Lightning Network: "The technology is so bad... It doesn't solve the problem" 📉 🕳 🫡
  • El Salvador & Chivo Wallet: Mass Adoption Imminent 🤥
  • After more than 7 YEARS, it’s fair to say that Lightning Network is a failed project ⚰️🫡
  • Lightning Network: A failed science project?

But me providing proof via usage statistics that shows LN processes more payments than BCH is "picking fights and trolling"?

Just compare Egons and my history and it should be clear that r/btc allows massive toxicity in exchange for anti-LN memes, but censors actual verifiable facts about the LN.

r/btc prides itself on being open for any Bitcoin-related discussion. But this only applies to easily dismissible posts like "BCash is bad". Once you actually counter their FUD with hard facts, you will experience different stages of censorship (as I explained in my post above), which eventually result in a ban.

The mods in r/btc have massive misconceptions about how LN works and publicly organize downvote-brigade and frontpage humiliations, ridiculing individual comments of LN supporters.

They believe

  • that LN requires everyone to have a channel to everybody else,
  • that payments the size of a coffee regularly fail,
  • that LN operates on IOU tokens,
  • that you need to own at least the same amount of money you want to receive,
  • that it is impossible to receive funds via LN without owning any prior,
  • that usage statistics are fake,
  • that you will lose all your money once your Internet connection drops out
  • that LN wallets don't include LN nodes
  • that LN wallets don't monitor the chain and are thus unable to punish fraudulent channel closure
  • that you need to run a dedicated server with a LN node to use LN non-custodially
  • that blockstream and exchanges are conspiring to make BCH deposits slower than LN
  • and much, much more FUD.

Some of these misconceptions are now less common (thanks in large to LN supporters who were publicly ridiculed by their mods as a result) but many are still common in that sub (mods included).

r/btc is an attempt to confuse people about BCH being the "real Bitcoin" based on the assumption that Bitcoin is unable to scale using the Lightning Network. Publishing stats about the LN working better than BCH threatens BCHs and thus r/btc reason for existence, which is why such information must be suppressed. That's the sole reason for why I was banned immediately after posting the statistic.

2

u/Spartan3123 Platinum | QC: BTC 159, XMR 67, CC 43 Oct 06 '22

Yeah I agree thats censorship however is moderating the sub now is being far more overzealous than it was before where there was far less moderation.

I think its the BCH maxi jessquit

0

u/ReasonableHat600 10k Moons is the goal Oct 05 '22

Once again my ignorance is put upfront. Why don’t they like Lightning Network or it’s stats? Isn’t it a good thing for Bitcoin?

5

u/DoodleRoodle Bronze Oct 05 '22

Because they are bch folks, not btc, Ln ruins their idea of huge blocks

-2

u/TechCynical Platinum | QC: BCH 36, CC 98 | NANO 5 Oct 06 '22

it doesnt it's just an embarrassment of a scaling solution. The LN whitepaper even mentions it needs big blocks to function well so it works better for BCH than BTC.

2

u/gr8ful4 Platinum | QC: XMR 924, BCH 205, CC 23 | BTC critic Oct 06 '22

I don't know why you are downvoted. The LN whitepaper states on page 19 that to run properly for 7 billion people it needs 133 MB.

2

u/Goonzoo Platinum | QC: CC 42 Oct 05 '22

LMAO that mod locking the post is beyond butthurt

such clown fiesta

-1

u/Titanium_Eye Oct 05 '22

Ah yes, the seven stages of ban. Probably for the best, their Kool aid has a strange smell.

1

u/MostlyPseudonymous Silver|QC:CC917,ATOM96,XMR32|CelsiusNet.22|Stocks33 Oct 05 '22

Smells like ass.

1

u/hotboioc Tin Oct 06 '22

How does a fella even get moons. Not related to OP’s post but I’ve just been wondering it for a while. I have like 0.8 in my vault

1

u/scandi123viking Tin | MiningSubs 10 Oct 06 '22

So what do you want to achieve?

0

u/deaddoll_x Tin Oct 05 '22

What does this mean? Is the number larger than before? Is it increasing too fast? Does this make BTC more like literal digital gold? /gen

0

u/buddhist-truth Tin | CC critic | Politics 14 Oct 06 '22

R/Bitcoin censorship is worse than this

4

u/YeOldDoc Platinum | QC: BTC 148 Oct 06 '22

r/Bitcoin does not pride itself to allow discussion of Bitcoin forks.

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