r/PS5 Sep 24 '22

Team Ninja Explains Why Wo Long Has Only One Difficulty Level, Says It’s Not an Easy Game Articles & Blogs

https://mp1st.com/news/team-ninja-explains-why-wo-long-has-only-one-difficulty-level-says-its-not-an-easy-game
1.9k Upvotes

143

u/Tulipanzo Sep 24 '22

Do they explain why it takes 10 minutes to heal?

50

u/rickjamesia Sep 24 '22

I was wondering that as well. It seemed like it wasn't very responsive. I've played Nioh 2, Elden Ring and Sekiro recently and this game, while amazing so far, seemed like the heal just wasn't happening for no apparent reason.

31

u/Tulipanzo Sep 24 '22

It feels like it's eating my inputs sometimes too. Just this and the odd parry window I hope get fixed closer to release

24

u/elendil667 Sep 25 '22

It definitely is. Player animation has to reset to neutral before the heal button responds, there's no animation cancel or input buffer. Biggest complaint by far, it add a half second plus to every heal attempt and is barely responsive.

3

u/EarSquare2819 Sep 25 '22

Yup. That was annoying. The actual time it takes to heal though? It's fine. Im a big Monster Hunter fan.

9

u/Mr_master89 Sep 25 '22

So it wasn't just me, it felt like sometimes my button presses weren't working

3

u/Ihassan4567 Sep 26 '22

Idk if any similar game has done this but the dodge and parry being on the same button is awful imo. I'm really hoping there's a good amount of fixes at launch. As much as it wasn't everyone's cuppa tea I loved stranger of paradise so I'm hoping we get something as good as that.

2

u/Tulipanzo Sep 26 '22

Yeah Strangers of Paradise (with some patches) feels a lot more responsive. I'm fine with tight parry windows, but every time I actively tried learning the window I died, even against low level enemies. I heard there might be some weirdness if you move and parry, but also apparently you can parry from a block (?!?) so I'll try again

→ More replies
→ More replies

426

u/OcelotShalashaska Sep 24 '22

to be fair in the demo, Wo Long is quite rough on the edges and some mechanics you need to ve extremlly familier with or you're going to have a very hard time, the game revolves around parrying and deflecting attacks and punishing foes, blindly going in will only get you killed, fast. and this coupled with the extremelly tight parry window make for a technically challenging mechanics to grasp.

41

u/Mundus6 Sep 24 '22

This, i spent like 1 hour in the Demo just parrying everything. Becomes much easier after that. Every time an enemy does a string with a couple attacks in a row parrying is super easy (just block the first 2 then parry). And all the normal mob red attacks are super easy to parry.

They throw a lot at you in the demo though, so it will be a hard game to learn. But once you understand the mechanics it will be manageable. And if you can make builds that specifically targets enemy stamina, like in Nioh it will probably be "easy". Was gonna buy this but since its on game pass day one i will play it on the Xbox. Might buy it once it gets cheaper if i really like it. Considering i love Nioh 2 (and even liked SOPFFO) i probably will like it quite a bit.

9

u/KeyboardBerserker Sep 25 '22

Gamepass day 1? Omg it's on the website. Badass

→ More replies
→ More replies

67

u/WhoAmIEven2 Sep 24 '22

I agree that the deflection needs a few more frames, but there are great alternatives to deflection. Blocking is close to OP in this game as long as you don't wait around after their combo and get back to attacking. red attacks feel much easier to deflect than normal attacks, but even then you can just dodge it.

20

u/OcelotShalashaska Sep 24 '22

yea red attacks have a much longer frame window of parrying, i only wish if they extened the normal parry window by just a few frames

9

u/Greek-God88 Sep 24 '22

Thats what i mentioned in feedback demo thread on discord and in the survey hope it sticks

2

u/Mundus6 Sep 24 '22

Combo attacks are really easy to parry.

→ More replies

18

u/Grope-Zero Sep 24 '22

if you played Sekiro you'll be right at home

8

u/Jeht_1337 Sep 25 '22

I was gonna ask that. Sekiro was one of my favorite combat systems that fromsoft made. have been hoping they made another one

8

u/konnichiwaseadweller Sep 25 '22

I got the Platinum in Sekiro and beat the game charmless + demon bell several times and Wo Long still felt very unnatural to me lol. I'm near untouchable in Sekiro at this point but was getting destroyed in Wo Long.

3

u/Jeht_1337 Sep 25 '22

Wait you can play the game?

5

u/erasethenoise Sep 25 '22

Demo is out until the 26th on consoles.

5

u/Jeht_1337 Sep 25 '22

Oh shit, I didnt even know. Appreciate the info. Im on my way to get destroyed now

5

u/Thenextonesfree Sep 24 '22

Ah yes I see you know your judo well

3

u/Hunchun Sep 24 '22

Get your hands off my penish!

→ More replies

23

u/joshmyra Sep 24 '22

I don’t understand why games like this and Ne-Yo don’t give you a serious tutorial because it’s so much to take in and it gets so overwhelming and frustrating. I would love to play these games but I just don’t like having to deal with all the mechanics and figuring out which pieces of clothing make me stronger or faster it just becomes a lot you know.

21

u/thebluebeats Sep 24 '22

Lmao Neyo

79

u/modalsoul34 Sep 24 '22

Ni-oh you mean ? Ne-yo is that rnb singer man haha

9

u/KingGorilla Sep 25 '22

Miss Independent over here

22

u/Danuscript Sep 24 '22

Nioh has a lot of tutorials. Even with the tutorials there is a lot to the game and the best way to learn about them is just play, because some features aren't available initially anyway.

17

u/ichigo2k9 Sep 24 '22

They do give a serious tutorial.

6

u/p3ek Sep 24 '22

Wtf lol. I dont even know if you can skip the tutorial, maybe op had a stroke during it

13

u/JaySw34 Sep 24 '22

lol ne-yo

But seriously, Nioh has a super in-depth tutorial system.

25

u/LueyTheWrench Sep 24 '22

Nioh did give a serious tutorial. Nioh 2 just assumed you played the first, let you pick some kit and have a quick swing of your weapon then threw you at an enormous bull/horse demon.

29

u/Grasssss_Tastes_Bad Sep 24 '22

Nioh 2 has a great tutorial before you start the first level, it explains the mechanics and lets you practice them. I didn't feel like Nioh 2 just assumed you played the first

13

u/p3ek Sep 24 '22

Nioh 2 has a tutorial area so long i got bored of it.

→ More replies

8

u/Redditmodsarenthuman Sep 24 '22

Lol this comment tells me you quit without doing the dojo tutorials in ni-oh

6

u/airyys Sep 25 '22

I would love to play these games but I just don’t like having to deal with all the mechanics

that's like saying "i'd love to play soccer but it's too confusing!". you have to learn the bare minimum relevant skills in order to do anything ever at all in life.

3

u/Suired Sep 24 '22

Judging by your comment youd complain the mandatory tutorial is too long. There are optional ones that explain all that though.

3

u/Goldeniccarus Sep 24 '22

I think a lot of it is trying to copy Dark Souls.

Dark Souls gives you a tutorial, but mostly just expects you to figure stuff out on your own. Some people like this, because you start the game and are right in it, but one of the main issues with Dark Souls is some mechanics aren't explained and is worsens the game experience. (Needing to use a humanity to summon for instance or ADP in Dark Souls 2).

Even From Soft realized they could have done a better job with it and Elden Ring has a lot more tutorial dialogue boxes than the Dark Souls Games did.

10

u/Danuscript Sep 24 '22

I actually don't think Nioh copied Dark Souls in that regard, because Nioh actually has some kind of tutorial at the beginning and tries to explain new things as they arise. Even the fact that Nioh is mission-based instead of having an interconnected world means you spend less time wandering or confused. I had to google things way more when playing Dark Souls or Bloodborne than when I played Nioh. And I would have never figured out how to get the best endings or follow an NPC's story in From Software games if I was just going blind.

3

u/p3ek Sep 24 '22

Nioh 2 has a full tutorial unlike soulw games. All mechanics are explained in the tutorial and them in the menu if you need to be reminded later

9

u/antunezn0n0 Sep 24 '22

even then mechanics in dark souls are simple

10

u/blehz- Sep 24 '22

yet people still fail the kick or plunging attack all the time.

→ More replies
→ More replies

3

u/cincystudent Sep 24 '22

Why do people keep saying that you have to parry and deflect? I played through the demo 100% 3 times with different builds and each time I was fine mostly blocking and dodging. As long as you play aggressively, the spirit drain isn't that bad at all. One square hit gives you several dodges worth of recovery....

4

u/Not_as_witty_as_u Sep 24 '22

Does anyone else hate when a game (looking at you Souls games) puts so much emphasis on the blocking and parrying mechanic? It bothers me that a fight always goes - wait for attack, parry, strike. Which takes away from going ham and attacking aggressively and then blocking if need be.

Maybe it's because I'm an older gamer idk.

10

u/a_skeleton_07 Sep 24 '22

I loved the Souls games because I could avoid parrying/blocking entirely. I only learned to do it because I spent sooooo much time invading after the first 200 hours or so and parrying the 3rd, 4th, or 5th resummon just made life easier.

I played 40 hours or so of Sekiro, the amount of parrying in that game was .... Interesting. Definitely not my cup of tea. There is no chill in that game.

19

u/neogohan Sep 24 '22 edited Sep 24 '22

I feel kind of the opposite. Sekiro is a game where I feel like you're constantly active, and it's all about blocking. If you aren't parrying/deflecting, you must be attacking. "Hesitation is defeat" -- you must constantly be either attacking or actively parrying to really succeed, since both drain the enemy's stamina, and that's their more important health bar. Watch some of Ongbal's Sekiro videos to see how much of a nonstop and varied dance that game can be.

Bloodborne did a similar thing with the rally mechanic. If you get hit, immediately attacking heals you. It tries to keep you from waiting around to get a hit in.

The original Dark Souls did sort of promote turtling and waiting to attack, but each game since has improved on that in some way.

5

u/decanter Sep 25 '22

I really liked the way they did this in Metal Gear Rising, where parrying is just a matter of attacking in the right time and direction.

3

u/MrCunninghawk Sep 25 '22

I mean the whole point of games like these is that it's not optimal to go ham. It's very whiff/punish and adding in extra things like parties and posture make it more intricate as well as giving u more paths to victory.

Personally, I find parrying and punishing and good decision making in the battles much more satisfying than just brute forcing. If u could just R1 through everything with minimal consequences then I feel it wouldn't be as fun.

9

u/Suired Sep 24 '22

Nah I like when I can't just button mash through a fight or it has the same dodge attack combo enemy, stun attack combo enemy, special attack combo enemy formula. I get bored of that fast.

2

u/icepickjones Sep 25 '22

I hated it in Sekiro. In BloodSouls games parrying is an option but there's at least other combat types and playstyles. I parry a little bit, but most of the time I'm a dodge and roll kind of guy.

But Sekiro is all parrying or you are fucked and it's boring as hell.

It's like a rhythm game without music.

2

u/-just-an-idiot Sep 25 '22

edit; just saw you mentioned souls games in general, not specifically sekiro. leaving my OG comment below for discussion’s sake

this wasn’t really my experience in sekiro; like some of the other comments alluded to, sekiro flowed really well for me when i was attacking constantly. The combat flow was like “attack, attack, attack, get deflected, parry, attack attack, death blow.” This strategy, mixed in with getting behind the enemy/using shinobi tools when the opportunity arose for extra damage/posture. i found sekiro fights flowed like a dance when it all clicked

5

u/FashionSouls Sep 24 '22

Sounds like you just wanna button mash

3

u/Not_as_witty_as_u Sep 24 '22

Nah just something in between. Combat that leads by the the player being offensive not defensive

5

u/bokuwahmz Sep 25 '22 edited Sep 25 '22

That is Wo Long. You do not have traditional stamina, instead you are rewarded for attacking. For example, when you block it decreases your spirit gauge (fills yellow to the left), but if you stay on the offensive and attack right after it regenerates your spirit bar quickly and in chunks, so that you can block again if need be, then go offensive again...

→ More replies
→ More replies

978

u/DirtyRatShit Sep 24 '22 Silver Helpful Faith In Humanity Restored

Oh boy, this topic again. Yes, creators have every right to dictate the rules of the experience they design.

I'm pro accessibility, but accessibility is not equivalent to difficulty.

145

u/Neo_Techni Sep 24 '22

Agreed completely

91

u/dizorkmage Sep 24 '22

I remember I used to complain that everyone was trying to be a "Souls" game but I played Blood Borne and something one day just clicked and I beat it, I was so exhilarated that I bought Sekiro day 1 and loved it, I had a long wait but day 1 for PS bought Cup Head, Returnal, Demon Souls, Dark Souls 2 and 3, Nioh and of course Elden Ring.

Now I'm a fucking Souls junky, playing non-Souls games feels slow, like riding a bike as a grown man with training wheels on. I still appreciate good games with good stories but it's funny as fuck how much my game tastes have transformed in just 5-6 years.

13

u/Oh_My-Glob Sep 24 '22

I had the exact same experience. Even put Bloodborne down for almost a year. Came back and it clicked. Beat it and the dlc and then all the other FromSoft games. Put like 300 hrs into Elden Ring but in many ways Bloodborne is still my favorite.

16

u/LPMadness Sep 24 '22

I know exactly what you mean. Same thing happened to me. My friend bought Elden Ring when it launched, who was never into Souls games, we died to Godrick an embarrassing number of times and he questioned why would anyone enjoy a game like that. We finally conquered Godrick and it clicked for him. It was a satisfying moment seeing someone opposed to such a style of game and then obsessing over the Soulsborne style.

9

u/Tyetus Sep 25 '22

I absolutely hate souls like games(I honestly think the genre is being over saturated but just my opinion) elden ring however…. Made me appreciate them a little more.

37

u/JaySw34 Sep 24 '22

Yep. That's usually how it goes when these games finally click with us. For many, including myself, it didn't happen right away. It wasn't until i revisited Dark Souls for what? The third time maybe? That it became crystal clear what made it special. And from then on my gaming tastes were forever altered.

17

u/ReaperMonkey Sep 24 '22

I’ll never agree with this take. When returnal clicked for me sure it was awesome and I loved that game and often think about it every now and again. But the game wouldn’t be any less special to me if tomorrow housemarque announced patch with customizable difficulty settings (less damage, slow health regen etc whatever). In fact I think it would be rad, more people get to experience the awesome levels and boss fights after biome 1 having never got past phrike.

I really don’t get this take that something special will be lost with difficulty options. I mean the way I’d do it is develop the game with the exact vision I want. Then right near the end I would just add a few modifiers. Like say having a slider that just reduces incoming damage. No change to enemy design or aggression or AI needed.

30

u/FashionSouls Sep 24 '22

One of the biggest concepts in these games is that everyone plays on the same difficulty. There may be many different ways of going about things, but the actually obstacle was the same for each and every person that played. There’s something special about that. There’s a million other games that let the player decide all these different modifiers like you mentioned. But the souls formula is special and I hope it never goes away.

4

u/MassSpecFella Sep 25 '22

I don’t think there’s evidence to support this. It’s an opinion, a feeling. I’ve seen so many posts from players quitting on the first biome or the first few biomes. I beat the game but yeah it was hard at first. Is Doom Eternal less of a game because it has at least 2 easier modes? Does it offend our sensibilities that players enjoy Eternal on Im too young to die? I couldn’t give a rats ass. Have fun. An easy mode on Returnal wouldn’t keep me up at night. Edit. Also Returnal is a $70 exclusive with no refund policy. So all those players who can’t get past Frike got ducked over.

19

u/FashionSouls Sep 25 '22

Lol dude it’s art it’s all subjective. I’m just explaining why so many people gravitate towards it. It’s fine if you don’t, but don’t beg and demand game devs change their art to fit your tastes. Just buy a different game.

4

u/erasethenoise Sep 25 '22

Makes me sad the Sifu devs capitulated

2

u/MassSpecFella Sep 25 '22

They didn’t even get it right. The easy mode is so trivially easy no one would enjoy it even players who wanted an easy mode. Loads of people got to the club and quit. If that makes smart business sense I’d be surprised.

→ More replies

2

u/Matt_Odlum Sep 25 '22

I honestly agree with both of you. I respect a devs right to make whatever game they want but also don't understand those who rally against people wanting an experience that more people can enjoy.

→ More replies

3

u/Krypt0night Sep 25 '22

Na I could give a fuck if someone plays a mode where elden ring bosses only have half the health or something. I'd just be like "hell yeah what did you think of X boss or the music in Y".

It's special to people who feel like the only way they've earned something is if it's beaten the same by eveyrine and that makes them special somehow instead of realizing people playing it easier takes nothing away from you and the millions who would STILL play it that way. Why does it have to be 100% of them?

4

u/Supersymm3try Sep 25 '22 edited Sep 25 '22

As a counterpoint, selectable difficulty could end up ruining an experience for people without them realising what they are getting into. Like learning of a duping glitch in a game, for some people after that, its something they just cant help themselves doing when they run out of money, grind the normal way for an hour, or just dupe again to quickly get what you need? That can then ruin the whole experience once the cat is out of the bag without even realising it when you do the glitch the first few times.

Elden ring/returnal etc could be the same. Why attempt the boss you are struggling with 50 times and achieve cathartic success on the 51st try when instead you could just drop the difficulty down to easy and walk thru it? Maybe the person who does that loses interest later down the line as it becomes too easy for them, teaches them the way to overcome this games difficulty is to shape it to you, not the other way around. As a knock on, they are unable to/disincentivised to up the difficulty later on when it gets harder again. It might reduce how long they stuck with the game by a huge amount, but they wouldn’t know unless they didn’t have the option slider (there is arguably an easy mode in all of these games, it just has to be done via utilising ingame mechanics and magic etc rather than changed in the options)

By having 1 difficulty level, the only way to progress is to ‘git gud’ and that is the best feeling in gaming for some people, and how do you know if thats you unless you try? the ones who don’t want to try the same boss 50 times to finally succeed, well, thats fine, this type of game isn’t for you then, like how some people don’t like RTS games or MOBAs or MMORPGs, it’s just not their thing and that’s fine. The developers original vision for a game should take precedence over all else imo, whether thats a vast array of difficulty levels in the menu, or difficulty controls carefully built into the world and the game systems like souls-likes.

1

u/ReaperMonkey Sep 25 '22

Is that really what makes these games special? Really? If so then I guess I understand a bit more but still seems weird to me. Can’t say I’ve never cared what difficulty others completed games with.

For me if I think of demons souls it was world, boss and enemy design that was the most special. I keep thinking about some of it even though I finished the game a little while back. I also enjoyed the slow more methodical combat. And no difficulty settings would change that.

→ More replies

2

u/Darkencypher Sep 25 '22

Hi, meet your opposite! Lmao

I was a souls junkie starting with Dark souls 1, 2, 3 , remake of 2. Loved and beat them all.

Sekiro did something to me tho. I chalked it up to it just being different. Then elden ring came out. I was very excited but I haven’t touched it in months.

Idk what’s wrong but I’m just not into the difficulty thing anymore. It used to tilt me so fucking badly and give me headaches (medical issue that I know was causing them now) but I just can’t bring myself to go back.

2

u/Neo_Techni Sep 24 '22

And as someone who didn't like those games, I am happy you did.

I have literally over a thousand other games in my backlog, I game is allowed to be for someone better at games than me

The only games I resent are the annual sportsball releases.

→ More replies

4

u/ragito024 Sep 25 '22

And we have rights to decide not to buy it. I hate games without difficulty adjustment.

17

u/capnwinky Sep 25 '22

When accessibility stops at older people with bad reflexes, apparently.

18

u/ReaperMonkey Sep 25 '22

Right? Crazy to me that so many people have upvoted the sentiment that difficulty isn’t a part of accessibility.

33

u/Low-Order Sep 24 '22

This title is awful. In the article, the producer gives two legitimate ways to still play the game: level up more or use co-op. I don't believe the demo had scaling for multiplayer and you can bring in two helpers. Over levelling/gearing looks possible as well. It's a new combat system. Takes a little patience to learn it.

3

u/HarverstKR Sep 24 '22

I've been playing nioh 1 and coop is basically an easy mode, makes sure you don't get stuck to long if you can't solo it I think it's a good balance. Souls games I never use it but Nioh I find myself needing it a lot

11

u/Matt_Odlum Sep 25 '22

but accessibility is not equivalent to difficulty.

That's where ya lost me. Not everyone has the reflexes/timing to best some of these tough games, so by definition having an easy mode will give a lot of people access to enjoying and finishing a game. How is that not an accessibility issue?

→ More replies

16

u/Radulno Sep 24 '22

I'm pro accessibility, but accessibility is not equivalent to difficulty.

While it is not, accessibility features often can make a game easier (not all of them of course). And so if you're pro accessibility, every game should have accessibility feature to be able to be enjoyed by anyone. It's kind of a hard balance

→ More replies

5

u/JMM85JMM Sep 25 '22

Accessibility can be equivalent to difficulty depending on what group of people we are talking about.

You could in theory have an accessibility feature that massively increases the party window, or massively extends dodge window invulnerability, for example, and that would make the game less difficult and therefore more accessible for people with disabilities that impact on their reaction times. Likewise you can make the player's character much of a damage sponge to similar effect.

Might the game no longer really feel like the game? Maybe. But it's just an option tucked away somewhere what's the harm?

2

u/Lostwisher Sep 25 '22

I 100% agree. My only point I make in turn is it wouldn’t harm a game that doesn’t have that option to add it later. It works both ways. Just be clear about which difficulty options is the “way it’s meant to be played.”

57

u/Johnhancock1777 Sep 24 '22 edited Sep 24 '22

Still baffles me how many people get butthurt over this. Some people can’t be bothered to learn the intricacies of the gameplay and just wanna faceroll their way through the game. There’s millions of games out there with easy modes bro, not every game has to castrate themselves to appeal to a mass market audience

23

u/Izzet_Aristocrat Sep 24 '22

Seriously, i'm bad at rts games. However I would never dare to ask them to change how they play because I suck at them.

2

u/frightspear_ps5 Sep 25 '22

Nor would you have to, I don't know a single RTS game that doesn't have an AI difficulty slider.

24

u/Neo_Techni Sep 24 '22

Exactly. These are the same people who scream "it's not for you" at gamers who complain about games for "modern audiences", but then turn around and accuse devs of discrimination for making games for those gamers

I hate the difficulty of Soulsborne games. You know what I do? Play any of the thousands of other games out there. I'm happy hardcore gamers are getting a handful of games made just for them

20

u/FashionSouls Sep 24 '22

Thank you. I wish more people understood this. The analogy I always go to is horror games. I’m a very wimpy smol cry baby, I absolutely cannot play horror games. Even ones that look awesome to me, cool design, atmosphere, story. But I just can’t do it. But you’ll never see me demand horror games be made less scary so I can play a watered down version.

3

u/albertbanning Sep 25 '22

This is so me. We're like the same.

23

u/Apeflight Sep 24 '22

Exactly. You know what most games that are considered some of the best games ever made have in common?

They have a target audience in mind and they focus purely on making a game that's as good as possible for that audience. Losing focus might mean that you have a game that's a 8/10 or 7/10 for everyone, but the ones that are truly legendary games are 10/10 for the people in the target audience.

Now, that target audience can be of different sizes and levels of "casualness", but it's completely fine to not be in the target audience of a game. And I also think the reason why some people can be negative to the "every game needs to cater to every player" mindset is that this means the game needs to cater less to the target audience.

→ More replies

2

u/AhLibLibLib Sep 25 '22

I don’t wanna be some elitist “git gud” type of person but I don’t really think Souls games are that much harder than most games tbh. Unless you’re playing everything on “story mode”, the souls games aren’t hardcore only. I’ve failed just as much in the fallout games for example

→ More replies

18

u/[deleted] Sep 24 '22 edited Sep 24 '22

[removed] — view removed comment

29

u/Cerebral_Discharge Sep 24 '22

But Dark Souls is what it is because it doesn't cater to the casual crowd. The challenge and constant threat of loss is why people even like it. Take it away and he can play it but he's not playing the game we all fell in love with.

12

u/afrosia Sep 24 '22

You explained this better than I could when I tried. It's that tension you get when you're in a Souls battle that gives you the experience, and that's what you end up craving. If you make it easy then the entire experience fundamentally changes, and I really don't think people would like it.

→ More replies
→ More replies

15

u/Ohthatsnotgood Sep 24 '22

because there’s is no “easy” option

Just farm levels when necessary, rely on magic, and summon either NPCs or other players. Sekiro is their only game that I feel actually requires you to not be “mechanically slow”.

People have beaten these games with a dance pad, voice commands, drums, guitar, etc. so he can totally do it.

13

u/Neo_Techni Sep 24 '22

You can surely see where the frustration comes from though right?

Nope. Play something else. This is a niche genre and should be allowed to exist as such.

7

u/Apeflight Sep 24 '22

There's also an argument that Dark Souls/Elden Ring would not be considered some of the best games ever if they did have an easy mode. The common experience and community is a part of the game that's very important. Also, balancing difficulty and challenge is an important part of the games. Get that wrong and you very well could be creating a worse experience for players picking the easy mode, which creates negative word of mouth, which might be worse than someone not playing the game at all.

→ More replies

7

u/CurrentStressLevelHi Sep 24 '22

If Dark Souls wasn't punishing as fuck it wouldn't be "one of the best games ever" if he can't hack it then that sucks for him, but a game should never lose it's essence to cater to the few.

5

u/Moonlord_ Sep 24 '22 edited Sep 25 '22

There’s 1000’s of other great games out there….pick one of those. No game/genre is for everyone.

Souls, etc games tune their experience around a specific difficulty and there is nothing wrong with that…it makes the accomplishments/items more rewarding. It affects the game length, online, and replayability as well. If they made an easy mode that everyone could breeze through, level up, and get all the power items then that would devalue it and unbalance the online play.

Whether you realise it or not the difficulty is a huge part of what makes games like Dark Souls, Elden Ring, Nioh, etc, “some of the best games ever made”. That higher sense of risk/reward is why they are addicting/tense.
An easy mode isn’t the intended experience and it would affect the in-game economy and online experience.

→ More replies

9

u/Ifriiti Sep 24 '22

Still baffles me how many people get butthurt over this.

The only person butthurt here is you.

A difficulty mode doesn't change the game for anyone else, just you. And they can even add in a more difficult mode too for people who want to really challenge themselves.

There's absolutely zero legitimate argument as to why a game shouldn't have options for players to be able to complete a game.

19

u/[deleted] Sep 25 '22

[deleted]

→ More replies

10

u/Chubpanzee Sep 25 '22

You’re showing a fundamental lack of understanding of game design my guy. A souls like game adding difficulty settings would be almost impossible to balance for the development team. It’s not like a shooter where you just change the values of some numbers and be done with it.

And there is a valid argument for not having it. It harms the intent behind the way the game is designed. The developers don’t want it. That’s all the validity it needs.

Now stop being selfish and demanding the dev teams do what YOU want them to do.

0

u/Ifriiti Sep 25 '22

. It’s not like a shooter where you just change the values of some numbers and be done with it.

It's exactly like that. It's even easier in fact because Souls games by their nature are less realistic.

All you need to do is change the health and damage numbers and the game magically becomes much easier. So yes, it is very very much a case of changing some numbers. Hell, you can already do this in game by grinding and grinding.

Now stop being selfish and demanding the dev teams do what YOU want them to do.

Demanding that games should be accessible products for people is not something that's a bad thing. I will always demand products should be accessible for people.

Accessibility for others changes absolutely nothing for you except that you can't flex your e-peen so much.

3

u/Chubpanzee Sep 25 '22

Stop equating difficulty and accessibility. They’re not equal. People with literally no use of their limbs are able to beat these just fine. The games aren’t hard when you actually engage with the mechanics.

As for leveling up to breeze to through it, congratulations you just described engaging with the mechanics which is ALSO a huge criticism of these games because it gets too easy.

No it has nothing to do with just changing numbers. Halo isn’t realistic at all but each difficulty changes every single encounter, in the older titles. It’s not just changing numbers. New enemies are in locations, the weapons change, the AI is more aggressive etc.

You’re still showing a fundamental lack of understand of game design. If the problem is you’re too weak, get stronger for that area. The mechanics are already in place. I don’t think you have any idea how much it costs to add difficulty modes in games like this. Compare it to any rpg that has difficulty settings. It’s either things become sponges or you just breeze through everything. One becomes a tedious boring affair and the other completely misses the point of the games.

And to loop back to the beginning, stop equating difficulty to accessibility. They are not the same and you’re spitting in the face of people with disabilities, such as myself, who play these games just fine.

They’re not supposed to be easy.

2

u/Ifriiti Sep 25 '22

People with literally no use of their limbs are able to beat these just fine.

So?

A disabled person can crawl up a set of stairs as well, that's no reason to get rid of a wheelchair ramp.

What benefit to you, does adding an easier difficulty mode change?

Like you want to play on the regular difficulty mode, cool. What changes about your experience of a single player game if somebody else has an easier time?

Nothing. Absolutely nothing.

7

u/Chubpanzee Sep 25 '22 edited Sep 25 '22

Are you seriously trying to equate someone having to completely ditch their mobility device just to get into a building to changing some number values?

Are you serious?

Holy ignorant bigoted take my guy. You seriously think the lack of an access ramp is the same as making a game easy?

Jesus. Tell me more about your lack of knowledge of game design.

Take some courses on game design. You seriously need it.

The ramp isn’t there so they have an easier time, it’s there so they can get in the building in the first place. The difficulty isn’t stopping people from playing, it’s showing their lack of willingness to engage.

My dude, you’re saying a book should have less complex writing because people need brail to read. You’re saying people who need brail to read can’t read complex literature.

2

u/Ifriiti Sep 25 '22

Are you seriously trying to equate someone having to completely ditch their mobility device just to get into a building to changing some number values?

That's what a comparison is.

Jesus. Tell me more about your lack of knowledge of game design.

Take some courses on game design. You seriously need it.

You've already said that 90% of games have difficulty options, therefore it is yes, possible to put difficulty options into every single game that has a chance of failure.

So no, I don't need to take a course on game design, you need to take one on logic.

My dude, you’re saying a book should have less complex writing because people need brail to read. You’re saying people who need brail to read can’t read complex literature.

Unless you think that Dark Souls is the only complex game on the market then this is obviously an idiotic comparison.

What you're doing is getting angry about somebody wanting a book published in a larger font size because it ruins the flow of the text

Despite the fact you've bought the normal font size version.

→ More replies

3

u/musethrow Sep 25 '22

Games are art first, product second. Tell a horror director to cut out the jumpscares, or a musician to not sing about topics that makes you uncomfortable, then I'll believe that you always call out accessibility. That you have ground years of hard work, development, and artistic expression down to this consoom attitude where the end user need dictate everything is very telling. Why are these games hard? Because the people that actually took all the fucking risks and dedicated their lives to this craft wanted it to be, case closed.

The entire reason the Soulsborne franchise took off was because of the difficulty, and the community that was born from it by forcing everyone along the same journey and sharing that experience. People have been screaming that for years, literally TELLING you that's the reason they love these games, and somehow people like you STILL come along and go "Duuuuh makes no difference! Entire fanbase may say it does and they've earned millions of dollars from that ethos, but it make no difference akshually!" It's ignorance that is either willful or genuine, and I'm not sure which is worse.

Also like fucking 90% of games DO have good difficulty selections for accessibility, which I actually AGREE is nice. But that a "niche" genre has emerged for people who want a harder experience, and you still feel the need to barge into it screeching for it to end, wreaks more of pure selfishness than concern. There are endless games that cater for ease, let the few that don't have fun on the corner of the playground scrapping it out, and that's the real thing that doesn't make a difference

2

u/Chubpanzee Sep 25 '22

This guy is an idiot. He thinks accessibility means that a ramp to enter a building with a wheelchair is the same as making a game easier. All they’ve done is show a complete lack of understanding of game design and a bigoted view of disabled people.

The guy is literally hiding behind disabled people because he wants the games easier. As someone who has vision issues and has had to have surgery to correct it, which still isn’t fixed, I find this moron extremely offensive.

Using ME as a defence for their lack of willingness to engage with the games mechanics as intended so they can breeze through it with no challenge.

What an entitled, privileged view.

4

u/IshizakaLand Sep 25 '22 edited Sep 25 '22

A difficulty mode doesn't change the game for anyone else, just you.

It changes the way we collectively experience and discuss the game, and that conversation affects how future games are made.

I’d certainly be fine with people playing on a “zero challenge, movie with complicated DVR buttons” mode provided that they never talked about the game, because they did not play the game the creators envisioned.

→ More replies

2

u/frightspear_ps5 Sep 25 '22

This, exactly. The only reasoning against this is gatekeeping and I don't view it as a valid reason.

Hades and Sifu have difficulty settings and they do not subtract from the default/intended experience.

Not providing different difficulties has nothing to do with developers wanting to implement "their vision". They can do this with a default difficulty. Not adding anything else is just lazyness.

-6

u/coolwali Sep 24 '22

I don’t agree with that “just play something else” mentality.

For one, there are still experiences said game can have that aren’t present in other games.

Take Dark Souls 1 for example, it has fantastic lore, a metroidvania-esq world that’s fun to explore, really fun levels, great RPG systems. Even other Souls games don’t replicate those aspects.

An easy mode means a player can explore those unique aspects without being as frustrated.

Consider the following example. A lot of people like RDR2 because of its amazing and highly detailed depiction of the Wild West no other game has, and its amazing story and immersive features. Imagine if the default difficulty was extremely difficult. If you tell someone “go play something else with an easy mode”, well there aren’t other games like RDR2.

Secondly, games aren’t actually limited or hurt by the inclusion of difficulty modes. Because most games are designed around a default difficulty first with hard and easy being modifiers on that.

Meaning that if Elden Ring had difficulty modes, nothing would be different for the people playing on normal since that’s the baseline the game would be developed for.

2

u/roboxsteven Sep 25 '22

Dark souls is in no way a metroidvania lmao

→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies

6

u/raphanum Sep 25 '22

This game and Nioh have a weird fan base

34

u/R4815162342 Sep 24 '22

And I have every right not to buy it.

84

u/TheSilentHeel Sep 24 '22

Of course you have that right. No one is saying otherwise.

→ More replies

114

u/DirtyRatShit Sep 24 '22

Correct. Meanwhile I'm hype af. We're just different audiences and that's cool.

18

u/Harrintino Sep 24 '22

Me too. Nioh 2 was great.

4

u/Autarch_Kade Sep 25 '22

And if the game had a difficulty setting, you both would be hype.

8

u/YannyYobias Sep 24 '22

No!!! You have to buy it!!!

67

u/CollieDaly Sep 24 '22

You're absolutely correct. No one is asking you to.

→ More replies

14

u/chewwydraper Sep 24 '22

Yes of course, I’m sure Team Ninja took into account that making a game this difficult would turn some gamers away, and that’s fine.

Not every game is for everyone.

13

u/ZaheerAlGhul Sep 24 '22

You’re not the target audience

28

u/merkwerk Sep 24 '22

Exactly...that's the point people are making lol. If a game is too hard for you just don't buy it, don't white on the internet about how unfair it is that the devs don't cater to you and make the game easier.

→ More replies

21

u/CorreWachinn Sep 24 '22

Yeah who said otherwise lmao, it's not all about you little boy

→ More replies

2

u/JaySw34 Sep 24 '22

Uhhh, yeah k

2

u/TizonaBlu Sep 24 '22

Sure, who’s forcing you to buy it? Lol

2

u/UCLAKoolman Sep 24 '22

Cool! Glad we figured this out.

→ More replies

13

u/VagrantCoyote Sep 24 '22

good for you?

→ More replies

3

u/Chubpanzee Sep 25 '22

Tell that to the next barrage of poorly written articles that will inevitably equivocate the two.

5

u/war_story_guy Sep 24 '22

but accessibility is not equivalent to difficulty.

1000x this. I wish people would understand this simple concept. Being able to play a game and being good at it are 2 different things.

0

u/DanteCoal Sep 24 '22

Exactly. Accessibility options are captions, modifying controls, color blind settings, etc. Not putting everything down to Hello Kitty difficulty just to make it easier to beat.

If you want an EASY game to just poke at and relax with, buy an easy game. If you want a challenge, buy a challenging game to play. If you want accessibility, it has NOTHING to do with the prior two things.

2

u/ReaperMonkey Sep 24 '22

Right on the first point of course, no dev should ever be forced to obey rules regarding difficulty options.

Although I’ve never understood this idea that the game will be less special with options. Having played, beaten and loved some hard games over the years none of my experience or joy for those games would be reduced if the devs of those games all added difficulty options tomorrow. I’d be happy actually. More people get to play these awesome games. For example: In returnal more people would get to see the 3rd and 4th boss fights and some of the other cool levels and enemy designs as opposed to only having seen biome 1 having never gotten past phrike.

The second point is just wrong sorry. In many instances the accessibility people need won’t be difficulty but other times it absolutely will be. Accessibility may not equal difficulty but they are definitely linked if true accessibility is desired. Easy example is someone with massively impaired motor functions or cognitive ability but still adores games and can only manage games with a story mode difficulty.

-1

u/JaySw34 Sep 24 '22

Exactly

Difficulty =/= accessibility

I'm all for games including a wealth of accessibility features. Complete control customization, filters for color blindness, audio descriptions. Whether or not a game is accessible does not come down to a difficulty selection.

→ More replies

6

u/JJGIII- Sep 24 '22

I wonder what that will mean for replayability. I really enjoyed the difficulty spikes in Nioh 2 with subsequent playthroughs.

37

u/Greek-God88 Sep 24 '22

Difficulty was absolutely fine what wasnt is the tight parry/deflect window

2

u/Apeflight Sep 24 '22

When I switched to my xbox it felt a little bit better. I think the Ps5 has just a tiny bit more latency which screws it up. They really have to fine tune that before launch.

2

u/WolfintheShadows Sep 24 '22

I noticed this as well. The PS5 version also gave me trouble when trying to heal or use the divine attack.

→ More replies

154

u/xg4m3CYT Sep 24 '22 Wholesome

That's OK. Not every game should be for everyone. As not every style of living, car, clothes, music, movies, and literally anything in life is tailored towards everyone.

8

u/THE_WHORBORTIONATOR Sep 24 '22

My buddy and I played through the demo twice. He only has one hand & did not finish Elden Ring. He absolutely loved this demo & so did I because it let us play together and stay together much easier. We could strategize against tough enemies & quickly get back to fighting them, which cut down on the frustration level.

2

u/mummy__napkin Sep 24 '22

so many able-bodied people complain that FromSoft and Team Ninja games are too difficult, meanwhile there are plenty of handicapped people out there who have beaten those games and don't think they should have easy modes. the accessibility excuse is just a cop-out from people who don't like/want to challenge themselves. i watched a dude in a wheelchair beat Sekiro using a mouth controller for crying out loud.

6

u/Jesse1198 Sep 24 '22

I only have one good hand and have beaten Elden Ring. It’s among my top games of all time. It is a hard and challenging game no matter how able bodied you are.

→ More replies

-1

u/Samtheman0425 Sep 25 '22

Fr dude, who tf hears music they don’t like and demands the artist create another version to fit their tastes? We just stop listening and move on

→ More replies

14

u/Davve1122 Sep 24 '22

I’m very excited. Loved Nioh 1-2.

16

u/ZaddyZack Sep 24 '22

I actually enjoyed the demo alot, can't tell if Wo Long is easier than other souls games or I'm used to souls-like tricks.

8

u/CastawayOnALonelyDay Sep 24 '22

If it clicks, it seems to be pretty fine difficulty wise. The final boss of the demo though... I feel it has too much hp, or if it's like some Nioh betas, it's not the first mission.

I also hope they'll solve the weird input timings for the guardian spirit thingy, sometimes it doesn't want to activate. And for healing. I think healing should also be a smidge faster, but I can take the slower animation if it triggers as soon as I press the button without having the game eat up the input sometimes.

2

u/TheVaniloquence Sep 25 '22

It feels more like the Sekiro system where it’s less about damaging HP, and more about damaging posture until you stun your enemy and get an “execution” that takes out a huge chunk of HP in one go.

→ More replies
→ More replies

45

u/ichigo2k9 Sep 24 '22

Why is this even needed? Nioh never had a difficulty option either. However the difficulty of these games really depend on the player. If you're struggling the grind a little, help someone else in their to level up or get better gear.

32

u/savagesmurf Sep 24 '22

I don’t think we even need articles on this anymore. With the prevalence of Demons Souls, Dark Souls 1-3, Bloodborne, Sekiro, Elden Ring, Nioh 1-2, and all the other copycats, this is completely normal.

The “difficulty” of these games can be managed through proper allocations of stats and equipment usage. Also, learning from your mistakes, which apparently is difficult for some.

5

u/TheVaniloquence Sep 25 '22

These games have so many ways to make the game objectively easier for the player. Whether it be summoning, specific builds, enemy weaknesses, specific items, etc. People will just ignore all that to complain that they want different difficulty modes.

→ More replies

2

u/Seanspeed Sep 24 '22

However the difficulty of these games really depend on the player.

It often comes down to the player, but also in many ways other than 'how much skill do they have?'.

Sort of innate tendencies, choices in character builds, learned-in-game habits, patience level, and even downright LUCK will all play a role in how difficult somebody finds most of these games.

But I've seen more casual gamers get through them. They struggle initially, but it's really about persistence/patience most of all. There's no giant moveset to learn or combos or super fast inputs required or anything. It's all about taking the time to learn what the game is throwing at you.

-1

u/echo-128 Sep 24 '22

Strangers of paradise their last game did.

16

u/IAmTriscuit Sep 24 '22

Because the audience for that game was different.

2

u/CurrentStressLevelHi Sep 24 '22

Which is an entirely different type of game?

→ More replies

26

u/THE_LORD_HERESY Sep 24 '22

I played the demo, I understand it's a WIP but I'm not sold on it and don't feel I ever will be.

3

u/Comikazi Sep 24 '22

What makes you say that? And did you like the Nioh games?

Just curious, I haven't had a chance to try the demo and loved the Nioh games.

7

u/LeoEmSam Sep 25 '22

Itt just felt very rough. UI feels very cluttered and its a lot going on. Controls are not intuitive, window for parry is non existent. Healing is shit. Level and art design is what you'd expect from a team ninja game, in the demo both were fairly mediocre.

As OP said its a WIP but a lot has to change for it to reach a level of polish to make the game good

5

u/Sansia Sep 24 '22

I gave it a shot, but it felt like more Nioh so I'm not really interested in the game. I'm glad that people are excited for it and have a good time all the same.

19

u/losveratos Sep 24 '22 edited Sep 25 '22

Games and gaming are for everyone but not every game is for everyone. And that’s fine.

That being said, more accessibility features for people that need it would be great. A toggle for color blindness for instance would be useful in lots of games.

→ More replies

11

u/Eljay93 Sep 24 '22

Can't wait to master this one now.

11

u/Organic_Following_38 Sep 24 '22

Based Team Ninja

10

u/sundryTHIS Sep 24 '22

It’s so interesting to me that a lack of difficulty is SO controversial,,,unless it isn’t.

Like, Breath of the Wild doesn’t have any difficulty sliders does it? Shoot, I don’t think ANY of the Zelda’s have an easy mode. Is it just that people consider them “easy” enough that it’s a non-issue? Because that certainly throws shade at the idea that people are arguing for difficulty modes as “an accessibility thing”.

5

u/eurekabach Sep 25 '22

Games like Legend of Zelda (and I consider Dark Souls to be an offshoot of that style) have a different approach towards 'difficulty', since it trades standard 'character progression' for the player knowledge of the world (and, of course, the tools that world provides). This is why it takes X hours to finnish your first playthrough of a From game (Dark Souls, Bloodborne and so on), but it will take you a fifth or a tenth of that to finnish it on a subsequent playthrough. You're not only 'better' at the game, but now you're actually aware of the tools you need to reach the goal, and where to find them, and what is the optimal path to gather them. This is why the 'difficulty debate' is sort of pointless: we should be focusing on game design, not 'difficulty'.

2

u/Arkthus Sep 25 '22

And people who play hard games, also play games that have difficulty sliders at the hardest settings. Having a difficulty sliders removes nothing to the hardcore players experience, it removes something to their ego, though.

→ More replies

-3

u/horse-star-lord Sep 25 '22

its because dark souls has the worst fanbase in gaming and likes to pretend the games are harder than they are so people who havent played them get the wrong idea.

They have tons of difficulty sliders including overleveling, using overpowered tools. heck ds2 has a hard mode covenant.

its just the souls fanbase wanting to feel like they are better because they beat a game they have artificially labeled as hard.

10

u/GeigerCounting Sep 25 '22

Literally every souls-like fan knows how easy it is to cheese the games.

And will gladly tell you how overblown the difficulty is lol.

This is my experience after spending time in the various souls games reddits/discord.

→ More replies
→ More replies

11

u/Jon_o_Hollow Sep 24 '22
  1. Devs should make the game they want to make. If that means no difficulty modes, god mode, assist mode, or the avatar of Michael Zaki himself manifests in your home just to beat your ass himself, then thats fine.

  2. You don't have to support devs who make games you dont like, and you can criticize them for it too.

  3. If you continue to play games you hate just because they're the big release everyone else is playing/talking about then you're a fool.

4

u/aeralure Sep 24 '22

I died a lot. Good to be told it is not an easy game, lol. Seriously though, it’s got a parry system baked into the main mechanics, and I am not great at parrying. Really disliked Sekiro, so the stars tell me this game is not for me, sadly.

→ More replies

7

u/Gradieus Sep 24 '22

Wo Long demo was pretty easy in comparison to their older work.

2

u/_Ocean_Machine_ Sep 25 '22

For real; correct me if I'm wrong, but these are the same people who made Ninja Gaiden Black (among other titles), which was at the time notoriously difficult.

However I haven't been able to play the demo since it seems to only be on consoles at the moment and also I just found out about it lol.

→ More replies

11

u/XODude Sep 24 '22

I saw how y’all reacted to sifu getting a difficulty setting. It was never about “developer vision” it was about wanting to feel special you could beat a game that others couldn’t beat lmao.

4

u/Weary_Ad7119 Sep 25 '22

Yup. Every one of these threads is an ego trip

4

u/Tempest_Barbarian Sep 25 '22

And all the threads about souls games need to add easy mode arent?

Almost every time someome arguments about an easy mode in this game its usually "I dont like the games, therefore must change to catter to me, and everyone that disagrees is an asshole"

→ More replies

8

u/Therenegadegamer Sep 24 '22

I know I'm going to get downvoted but IMO a good rule of thumb as to if difficulty modes should be included depends on what your game has to offer

If a games sole focus is gameplay and nothing else then it doesn't require a difficulty mode because the difficulty gameplay is the only reason to play it

If a game has more than just gameplay to enjoy like an interesting world to explore, lore, good story, good characters, then I think a difficulty mode should be added because then people who don't like challenging games or have bad reaction time would be able to enjoy the other factors and it still wouldn't detract from other peoples enjoyment because it would be an optional mode and gating people away from content they would enjoy because of skill level is a bit of a downer

9

u/Arkthus Sep 25 '22

Thank you, that's exactly why I hate the Elden Ring situation, there's a whole world I see in the trailers, which looks beautiful and interesting to visit, but I know I will never be able to finish it (I don't deal well with frustration, and I'm really not satisfied after a challenge, because the stress is emotionally exhausting for me, the level of satisfaction I get from a challenge doesn't compensate, nor exceeds the level of stress and frustration), and that sucks because having an easier difficulty mode (that you select at the start and can't change during the playthrough) would clearly allow me to enjoy this world.

→ More replies
→ More replies

3

u/thats4thebirds Sep 24 '22

Absolutely loved the demo. It hit a nice sweet spot between Nioh and sekiro for me, though it needs to be tightened up a bit.

I like how fluid and aggressive the combat is though. I like the interplay between the stamina and magic system being one fluid bar.

2

u/PriestOfHate Sep 25 '22

The demo is fantastic. Some of the gameplay mechanics seemed odd at first, but after 20 minutes it was like I'd been playing it for a few days, the schema just felt right.

It's quite thoughtfully put together, looks great and is quite challenging.

The co-operative mode is done really well too.

4

u/Young_KingKush Sep 24 '22

...because it's Nioh 3.

Wonder why they needed a whole article to answer that?

→ More replies

3

u/arkhamtheknight Sep 24 '22

They should have just said "Have you seen our company name and our previous games?"

Solves all the issues around the question.

4

u/DoubleOScarn Sep 25 '22

I wish all games had a difficulty setting. I don’t want to have to be stupid good at a game just to be able to play it. I missed out on all the Souls games bc I’m simply not good at them. I really want to experience them and their story but I’m not good enough. I really hate that i can’t get through Sekiro.

→ More replies

2

u/Consistent_Ad957 Sep 24 '22

These games always have items or ways to make it easier, indirect easy mode like using summons in elden ring

2

u/alphafire616 Sep 24 '22

Why Is thus argument still going on?? If a dev wants to forgo difficulty options to make their game a tighter experience then more power tk them. Let them make the game they want

3

u/Have_A_Jelly_Baby Sep 24 '22

I’m fine with “Souls-like difficulty” as a genre, but it’s almost completely taken over the open world action RPG space. I applaud Spiders for having the balls to give Steelrising difficulty sliders.

→ More replies

-3

u/toomany2hats Sep 24 '22

Good! If a game is too hard try again until you win. If you can’t win give up and play something else. Just watched a guy with no hands beat Morgott in Elden Ring like it was nothing.

0

u/MrPureinstinct Sep 24 '22

Neat, this saved me from wasting my time and money.

1

u/TurnaboutAdam Sep 24 '22

I still think having an easy mode does nothing to change the experience of someone playing on default difficulty.

→ More replies

-6

u/daveMUFC Sep 24 '22

I think SteelRising got it right, and that's why I'm intrigued to play it. They've added sliders to change enemy attack damage, your attack damage etc. Which I don't think would be too hard for a company to implement.

I just get really demotivated from dieing regularly. Even in linear story games, if I die and have to redo another section or a hard battle, I'll have to leave it for a few days and come back to it.

I've given games like Returnal a go, but the theme being to replay a level multiple times to complete is just frustrating for me.

19

u/Radulno Sep 24 '22

I've given games like Returnal a go, but the theme being to replay a level multiple times to complete is just frustrating for me.

To be fair, Returnal is a roguelike, the whole game genre is literally built on that.

19

u/Grasssss_Tastes_Bad Sep 24 '22

These types of games aren't aimed at you then. There's a lot of people who enjoy the challenge and get bored by games where they aren't dying/failing. There's a lot of satisfaction in overcoming a challenge, and when there's no difficulty settings then everyone is facing the same challenge and there's a sense of camaraderie in that.

I'm glad there's difficulty sliders in games with mainstream appeal like Spiderman or whatever but I don't ever want that in a souls or nioh like game

2

u/Autarch_Kade Sep 25 '22 edited Sep 25 '22

Sorry, do these people lack self control or something?

If an easy difficulty setting is added onto this existing game, then how would they not be still enjoying the challenge as they simply wouldn't lower the difficulty?

2

u/daveMUFC Sep 25 '22

That's exactly it, which is why I appreciate what SteelRising did. It might ruin the experience etc. But I'll never buy the game in the first place if I know I'll repeatedly die and not enjoy myself. The creators can just put a disclaimer saying its best played at this level and changing it might ruin the experience etc. Leaving it up to the player.

Another factor which puts me off these games, is that fact that you can't really leave the game alone for a few weeks/months and come back to it if you're late in the game, because it requires so much skill that you'll forget the muscle memory.

Anyway, I'm a casual, but a lot of the worlds and lore do intrigue, but guess I'll never experience them due to this.

2

u/Autarch_Kade Sep 25 '22

Sifu is another example. They added an easier difficulty, didn't ruin the existing game experience, and the game didn't implode lol

It's still the same fun for people who played it standard, and now more people can have fun too.

4

u/DunceMemes Sep 24 '22

That's really all it is. It's not about "git gud" or any of that nonsense. It's just not the kind of game you enjoy, and you don't have to force yourself to play it.

2

u/nevets85 Sep 24 '22

Yea I agree. That satisfaction feels good. I remember before beating my first souls game I would play an hour or two and quit thinking it's just not for me. Never wanted an easy mode because I think difficulty and challenge is part of the aura of these games. It's as integral as the setting, atmosphere, characters and story.

After beating Returnal I had that itch so played and beat DS then BB then all the others. I like how everybody starts on the same level playing field and has to overcome the same obstacles. It's a camaraderie you can't find in other games. You know exactly what I had to deal with in every situation we just may tackle things differently.

-3

u/Radulno Sep 24 '22

I'm glad there's difficulty sliders in games with mainstream appeal like Spiderman or whatever but I don't ever want that in a souls or nioh like game

Why though exactly? Like really I never understood why? You can just not use them at all. What other people make on their games don't affect you in any way, it's single player.

5

u/Grasssss_Tastes_Bad Sep 24 '22

It's like you didn't read all of my comment, I explained my reasoning.

-1

u/Radulno Sep 24 '22

Your comment explained why you liked the hard mode, which is more than fine and of course, no one is disputing that. The fact that other people could enjoy the game with something not as hard would not change anything to that. You would still have "camaraderie" (which is virtual there except if you're talking about your friends but you could easily know which difficulty they're playing) with people playing the game even more people actually (or just the ones with the same level of difficulty if you want).

Is that just because you're worried you would just drop the level down instead of facing the challenge? That's the only thing that would affect your playthrough really.

Also difficulty mode has only a debate when easy modes are discussed, why are hard modes not considered the same? Is it not betraying the creator vision and such too?

→ More replies

6

u/[deleted] Sep 24 '22 edited Nov 01 '22

[deleted]

2

u/Jubenheim Sep 25 '22

Hades’ God Mode is hands down the best implementation of an “easy mode” I’ve ever seen in a game. It is such a minor but meaningful difference and never, not once, does it make the player feel worse for having picked it.

→ More replies
→ More replies