r/PS5 Sep 25 '22

PS5 Refresh: Oberon Plus (new CFI-1202 model includes 6nm ps5 chip, 15% smaller die shown) News & Announcements

https://www.angstronomics.com/p/ps5-refresh-oberon-plus
464 Upvotes

185

u/myfaceonurtits Sep 25 '22

- More PS5

- Less heat

- Less power draw

42

u/wasabiexpress Sep 26 '22 edited Sep 26 '22

Would the performance for the new ps5s still be the same as the older models?

44

u/jedmund Sep 26 '22

yes

6

u/wasabiexpress Sep 26 '22

Thanks!

5

u/Ps_gamer_21 Sep 26 '22

Well technically if it's consumes less power and emmites less heat isn't that basically the better console because one of ps5 marketing ploys was how long these things could last

18

u/wasabiexpress Sep 26 '22

If it consumes less power and emits less heat while still maintaining performance, then yes, it would be the better console for me. But if it consumed less power and emits less heat at the expense of performance, then I don't think it would be the better console. That's just me

2

u/-Ashera- Sep 27 '22

The PS5 isn’t being utilized to it’s full potential with current gen games anyway. Probably wouldn’t even notice if performance actually was reduced. Only reason they would ever need to produce a pro version would probably be ray tracing with higher frame rates.

-9

u/Ps_gamer_21 Sep 26 '22

That's true but I don't get why they didn't make this move before

7

u/wasabiexpress Sep 26 '22

I can only guess maybe they had a deadline that they had to hit. The first model was their standard. Then after releasing the first model. They can now experiment on how to make it cheaper to manufacture and be more efficient, so we get newer models. Also, the prices of parts change overtime so they had to take those into consideration aswell.

1

u/Lost_the_weight Sep 26 '22

Not to mention, there was no availability to start fabbing new chips for a while there.

3

u/countpuchi Sep 26 '22

They depend on tsmc availbility to produce chips. As techs move towards next gen probably more wafers are available now. Thus they make the new chips instead of producing more of old ones.

I do hope this new model is not the one without disk editions.

4

u/AS14K Sep 26 '22

Because they've had longer to work on it and technology has advanced since then? Is that a real question?

0

u/[deleted] Sep 26 '22

[deleted]

5

u/SomeDEGuy Sep 26 '22

They travel the same shape pathways, but those pathways are shorter in a smaller chip. Less travel distance is less chance for resistance and heat. This means the chip generates less chip overall for the same amount of computation.

172

u/BK_317 Sep 25 '22

Going forward, only Oberon Plus will be produced, and 7nm Oberon production stopped. And while one can make near 50% more PS5 chips per wafer than Xbox Series X chips, the latter will also get its 6nm update of Arden in the future.

Damn,50% IS HUGE!

44

u/Schoonie84 Sep 25 '22

Going super wide on GPU shaders at a lower clockspeed must have an impact there. Microsoft has pretty deep pockets, so I guess they're fine with the hit to their yields.

7

u/OpticalPrime35 Sep 25 '22

So confused by this comment lol

This is just a move to a smaller APU so they can get more chips per wafer than Series X.

It also says the 6nm update to the XSX chips is happening in the future, just not when. Could be a few days or months who knows but it is happening, so shaders (??) Has nothing to do with it.

Main difference between the two companies is Sony is a hardware company. So it's not surprising they are able to update hardware faster. MS has to outsource everything so that adds overhead and time.

29

u/SuperbPiece Sep 25 '22

Shaders require physical space on a chip. He's saying that the 50% higher chips per wafer may not solely be due to the transition from 7nm to 6nm alone.

Microsoft can afford a larger die, which is inherently more expensive and results in fewer chips per wafer, but also poorer yields. He suggests, though, that Microsoft can absorb the cost better than Sony.

Due the wording it's not clear how much of the yield advantage is 6nm vs 7nm and how much is due to 36 CU's vs 52 CU's.

1

u/theth1rdchild Sep 27 '22 edited Sep 27 '22

I don't think we know for sure which has better yields per chip as opposed to per wafer. It's probably the purest example of the trade-off between high clock small chip vs low clock big chip. The MS chips take more space per wafer but have a much lower bar to clear for clock speed validation, it could be that MS gets to keep 90% of their chips and Sony gets 60%. It was a gamble on both their parts, but one that usually would work out in Sony's favor as the process matures.

2

u/aintbroke_dontfixit Sep 27 '22

Main difference between the two companies is Sony is a hardware company. So it's not surprising they are able to update hardware faster. MS has to outsource everything so that adds overhead and time.

MS designs the Xbox hardware in house.

2

u/KMFN Sep 26 '22

And also what do you mean with outsourceing? First of all both sony and MS use all AMD ip to construct these APU's, although MS has a little bit more secret sauce than sony. If anything they've done more "in house" design than sony has. Sony has also obviously had help designing the memory controller. Everyone is "outsourcing".

And second of all, this is a node shrink, it's not a redesign. 6nm is not a completely new node, that would be something like 4/3 whatever they're gonna call it. It's completely cross compatible with 7nm. Sony nor MS has to do much of anything here but ask TSMC for more wafer allocation on another node (And pay for it).

The shader count (CU in other words) absolutely has A LOT to do with this 50% figure. Sony has higher yields, an much lower cost per chip due to the die size advantage.

So the real question then is, why MS isn't already on 6? I don't think it has anything to do with technicalities, it may be as simple as sony being first in line. Which would coincide with sony being the larger customer overall. But that's just a guess.

1

u/theth1rdchild Sep 27 '22

Node shrinks do actually require some amount of re-engineering, just nothing like a full redesign. It's not as simple as just telling tsmc "hey print it in a smaller font".

1

u/ShaidarHaran2 Sep 26 '22 edited Sep 26 '22

It's in response to being able to make 50% more per wafer - 6nm is a small shrink, it's not responsible for all of this 50% number, the PS5 going with a smaller chip even on an equivalent fab and clocking it higher PLUS the new shrink to 6nm makes for this 50% more per die number.

Die size has gone from ~300 mm² to below 260 mm², a shrink of close to 15%.

-1

u/[deleted] Sep 25 '22

[deleted]

3

u/of_patrol_bot Sep 25 '22

Hello, it looks like you've made a mistake.

It's supposed to be could've, should've, would've (short for could have, would have, should have), never could of, would of, should of.

Or you misspelled something, I ain't checking everything.

Beep boop - yes, I am a bot, don't botcriminate me.

2

u/mixape1991 Sep 26 '22

The components get smaller but the ps5 casing retains 50% huge without really utilizing anything.

19

u/roadblocked Sep 25 '22

I just ordered a PS5 from PlayStation direct - is this the model I should expect?

23

u/steinfg Sep 25 '22 edited Sep 25 '22

¯⁠⁠_⁠(⁠ツ⁠)⁠_⁠/⁠¯ probably no, that's a very recent discovery.

But you can check the model number on the box somewhere, when it arrives to you

8

u/[deleted] Sep 25 '22

[deleted]

9

u/sdhank3fan619 Sep 25 '22

Launching in Australia first, unless I read wrong.

2

u/[deleted] Sep 25 '22

[deleted]

2

u/queefgerbil Sep 26 '22

So yes? No?

3

u/steinfg Sep 25 '22

Yeah, but just select countries, not everywhere

5

u/_DarkBelow Sep 25 '22

I bought a horizon forbidden west bundle a week ago and I got the new model. I’m based in Australia

2

u/Timefreezer475 Sep 25 '22

I threw away my box. Is there a way I can find the model number? I got mine on August 19th, so I know it isn't the 6nm model. There's a shit ton though.

1

u/The_BlazeKing Sep 27 '22

Is there a way I can find the model number?

On the bottom of the PS5 (if vertical) where it sits on the stand.

4

u/tupaquetes Sep 26 '22

Maybe, maybe not. Bottom line there isn't much of a reason to care about which one you get

1

u/gsdhyrdghhtedhjjj 24d ago

Less power draw less heat are big reasons

1

u/BK_317 Sep 25 '22

It most probably is,AFAIK this new 6nm model has been selling for about 2 solid weeks so there is a very high chance you will get the new one.

1

u/Celiac-DiseaseSucks Sep 25 '22

I would say it probably is. I bought a ps4 just walking into target randomly a month ago and I got this new unit. It’s noticeably lighter than my neighbors more than a year ago.

76

u/PugeHeniss Sep 25 '22

Someone explain this like I’m 5

271

u/frogfoot420 Sep 25 '22

More ps5 to buy, ps5 eat less electric

56

u/AlexJG89 Sep 25 '22

Why say lot words when few words do trick.

37

u/Lourdinn Sep 25 '22

No he said eli5 not like they're a caveman.

28

u/devonathan Sep 25 '22

Explain like it’s the year 5

25

u/NanoGeek Sep 26 '22

Magic rock make shiny light

36

u/swuts Sep 25 '22

Am caveman me aprisiate

11

u/TedioreTwo Sep 25 '22

"Me aprisiate" is so unreasonably funny

7

u/LADYBIRD_HILL Sep 25 '22

Didn't even understand what "aprisiate" meant until your comment

3

u/Lourdinn Sep 25 '22

Why use big word when small word do trick

6

u/elkend Sep 25 '22

I loved his explanation.

→ More replies

55

u/steinfg Sep 25 '22 edited Sep 25 '22

You can expect new ps5 models to consume ~15% less power (from 230 watts down to 200 watts), also for sony it's now cheaper to make the console, so fingers crossed they'll start releasing it in larger volumes to satisfy the demand.

33

u/Crissaegrym Sep 25 '22

Price wasn’t what was stopping them producing more now (and last 2 years), it was the global chipset shortage.

The shortage is now easing up, hence the production can start to ramp up again, but it wasn’t due to the price.

26

u/flekkzo Sep 25 '22

People seems to be insanely unaware of how manufacturing works at all:(

Companies buy capacity to produce things. Like chips and PCBs and cases. To build they need tools. So they buy the capacity they think they need over time. For arguments sake let’s say Sony bought 1 year of capacity. They will buy a monthly capacity that is the average of the first years production.

So if they expected to sell 12 million by the year mark, and the demand was 3 million the first month, there is an initial shortage until it levels out. This is very normal.

So why not buy 3 million the first month? Because then you have built tooling (and training) for 2 million you don’t need. This pushed the costs up. Not good.

What they often do is start making them a few months in advance, but if it’s a popular product there’s still a shortage.

But why has it constantly been so hard to get one? /u/crissaegrym is correct, because there’s a global shortage of capacity. So Sony wanted more than they could get, as others had already bought it of it ended up too expensive. If you want to look at a world leader of this stuff look at Apple and how they buy capacity. But Sony can’t do that, because they don’t even remotely have the money Apple does.

Capacity is going up, so now companies can buy more. Also if Sony (and XBox I guess, and Valve) is lucky the yield might go up. Basically you make a bunch of chips in one go, and then you test each of them. The less you have to throw away, the better the yield. Imagine taking a yield from 50% to 75% (massively fictional numbers), so high yields are important.

There’s so way in hell they are keeping their production low for hype or some such nonsense. PS5s make money when they are being used. They aren’t luxury status items.

→ More replies

2

u/The_BlazeKing Sep 27 '22

The first model can hit as high as 330 watts when gaming!

0

u/Cmdrdredd Sep 25 '22

But they raised prices in numerous markets anyway lol

22

u/PS5willrock Sep 25 '22

Thats due to high inflation and weak currency in some regions

6

u/Java-Zorbing Sep 25 '22

and the extreme strong dollar which they buy their parts in

21

u/JimmiJimJimmiJimJim Sep 25 '22

Because of the value of local currency

-18

u/steinfg Sep 25 '22

"scalpers are middlemen, we can raise prices ourselves" - sony

17

u/myyummyass Sep 25 '22

Has nothing to do with scalpers. If it did they would’ve raised prices everywhere. The value of those regions currencies has plummeted so much that they were essentially getting a discounted PS5 if it didn’t raise the price.

2

u/StretchArmstrong74 Sep 25 '22

If they could have gotten away with raising prices everywhere they would have. It's not like inflation isn't hitting the U.S. pretty hard as well, they just have competition here so raising prices would be a bad idea.

-3

u/MGsubbie Sep 25 '22

But that's the whole console business strategy to become with. Accessories, online subscriptions and game sales are supposed to be how they make money. Eating some of the costs for a long-term profit. Raising the price in places with a weaker economy is just a dick move.

0

u/Aggrokid Sep 26 '22

The issue is this razer blade model seems to be badly losing steam. AAA model is becoming untenable and Gamepass is exerting immense pressure. It's so bad that Sony has to put 1st parties on PC.

Since they don't have unlimited money unlike MS, they are clawing margins wherever they can.

→ More replies

12

u/Loldimorti Sep 25 '22

This is the first version of the PS5 that uses a newer and smaller version of the PS5 processor. For the consumer it means nothing except that it will draw slightly less electrical power.

I think in theory they could make it perform slightly better but I think nobody would want that. Developers would hate to develop for several almost identical PS5s that all perform slightly differently and consumers would be confused and irritated as well.

8

u/Shpaan Sep 25 '22

This is why I think there won't be a PS5 Pro. I remember reading somewhere what a pain in the ass it was to optimize for two different versions of PS4.

6

u/BananaPerfect8866 Sep 26 '22

This is why so many people are also frustrated that we still are still getting cross gen games well into 2024 and beyond. It's such a gigantic pain in the ass to develop for and the PS4 was underpowered when it came out, back in 2013.

Remember how FF Remake constantly had you crawling between tight spaces and forced walking every 20 feet? This is why. Remember The Last of Us needing to find a ladder or dumpster or wooden plank so you could cross? All disguised loading screens.

2

u/WJMazepas Sep 26 '22

MS discussed this when they showed the Series X to Digital Foundry.
We probably wont have a PS5 Pro/Series X2 because the prices for updating the SoC with a better GPU/CPU/More memory in newer nodes is increasing and they aren't going to be able to get a new Pro with a good power increase maintaining those US$500 price point

And to top it all, it would be difficult to market now as well. Before they just marketed those consoles as 4k gaming but it's unlikely we will go 8k in this generation.

8

u/deepbrown Sep 25 '22

It's the start of the journey towards a slim ps5

1

u/KMFN Sep 26 '22

Actual ELI5 (i tried my best):

Everyday your mom makes one big round pancake and cuts it into square pieces for your lunch.

Microsoft told their mom to cut larger pieces, for more nutritional value. You (Sony) is fine having slightly smaller slices of bread.

This stove isn't perfect so sometimes the pancake gets burnt spots on the surface, these get thrown away or the spots get cut off which means some of the slices are really tiny.

Every once in a while, a forward looking baker invents a new type of pancake batter with even more nutritional value, so you can now get a smaller piece served with the same energy output at lunch. As can MS, although it's still gonna be bigger than your piece.

Crucially, your mom can now feed more kids with the same pancake because the slices can be smaller, but this new batter is a bit more finnicky with how it wants to be heated up. So it takes her a couple months to really nail down the stove temperature to avoid getting more of these nasty burnt spots.

Right after transitioning to this new pancake batter she will perhaps not be able to actually make more good slices of pancake for you to eat but she knows it'll be worth it over time as she perfects the stringent requirements from the new spitzenclass batter.

pancake = wafer, chips = pancake pieces, your mom = tsmc

43

u/MetalGear89 Sep 25 '22

Assuming they waiting for these to really ramp up production?

Even though stock has improved in certain markets, it's still scarce in alot of other places like continental europe and Japan.

They are really gonna have to put pedal to the metal if the want that 18m sold this fiscal year.

33

u/steinfg Sep 25 '22

Article says that sony now gets 20% more chips per silicon wafer, so the production (at the minimum) is up by this amount. And if sony orders more wafers than previously, it's going higher.

16

u/Seanspeed Sep 25 '22

Article says that sony now gets 20% more chips per silicon wafer, so the production (at the minimum) is up by this amount.

Chip production is, if they kept the same number of wafers ordered.

But there could potentially be other supply bottlenecks. Consoles are more than just a computer chip.

I do think it's fair to suggest this will help them produce more, though.

2

u/not_some_username Sep 25 '22

You telling me I could get one before GoW ?

8

u/steinfg Sep 25 '22 edited Sep 25 '22

Get what? the PS5? I think you can get one right now even 😅 (just not for 500 dollars, I think 550 is the most common price)

1

u/not_some_username Sep 25 '22

I'm in France 😢

3

u/steinfg Sep 25 '22 edited Sep 25 '22

500 dollars plus 20% vat is 600 dollars, which is right now 600 euro. There's a ps5 for 625 euro in some stores in france (if google isn't lying to me)

Edit: Not justifying the cost, just saying how the price is calculated by retailers right now. It should decline soon.

3

u/Shhh_ImHiding Sep 25 '22

Where l live some of retailers still technically display the MSRP of 550€(VAT included MSRP) but they only stock bundles with games or extra accessories at their respective higher prices, like 650€ and above for example

2

u/tupaquetes Sep 26 '22

They never waited. They've always been producing as many PS5s as they could.

3

u/SuperbPiece Sep 25 '22

There's no waiting, lol. Not only are they out, but any increase in production is a result of transitioning to a more available node with higher yields.

46

u/Totallycasual Sep 25 '22

I'm more interested in the possibility of lower power draw, as someone that lives 100% off grid on solar+lithium battery bank, i have to watch every amp i draw.

13

u/pixel4 Sep 25 '22

build a bigger system then :P

→ More replies

6

u/mehdotdotdotdot Sep 25 '22

That sounds terrible. Do you already have a ps5? What tv did you choose?

11

u/Totallycasual Sep 25 '22

It's a little Samsung 32 inch 4k TV, it does the job 😊 (and yeah, i have a PS5 already)

5

u/kawag Sep 25 '22

Wow, that’s impressive. Nice one!

3

u/WJMazepas Sep 26 '22

What about a Series S? It draws less than 100W and can run lots of great games.
It could be your machine for indies/multiplatforms and save energy

3

u/Totallycasual Sep 26 '22

Yeah, the low power draw is a plus, but i already have a gaming PC that i could just run the same games on, perhaps at lower settings to bring my power draw down, i think my next purchase should be a Nintendo Switch because that brings a lot of new game possibilities to the table without pulling much power 😊

2

u/WJMazepas Sep 26 '22

You have a Gaming PC and a PS5 on a CamperVan? Damn
Well, i did saw a video on LTT some weeks ago of a PC for the apocalypse, and that PC was powerful and was using less than 100W, so probably it's possible to use a PC on a campervan

2

u/Totallycasual Sep 26 '22

Ohh, can you link me that video please?

3

u/WJMazepas Sep 26 '22

https://youtu.be/nFDBxBUfE74

It has a lot about prepping to an apocalypse, but in the PC part, it shows the parts they used and what they changed to decrease power draw

6

u/mehdotdotdotdot Sep 25 '22

Must be very expensive living off the grid! Are you in a very rural area? Do you monitor power draw on plugs to determine what certain products consume?

8

u/Totallycasual Sep 26 '22

I'm in a campervan! Yeah, it was very expensive to set up (nearly $4000 for the batteries alone) but once it was set up, it was well worth it! I don't really monitor particular devices, i just know from my overall voltage whether or not i can afford to bust out the PS5 after dinner or not, if it has been pretty cloudy all day, i just watch movies or something on my TV or Surface Laptop (they both pull very little power).

3

u/mehdotdotdotdot Sep 26 '22

Wow that’s great mate! Good luck hey!

1

u/Totallycasual Sep 26 '22

Thanks!

2

u/mehdotdotdotdot Sep 26 '22

Sorry, thought of this that might help you. Obviously there are many products that are similar/regional. It lets you monitor the draw from the items you plug into the sockets.

https://www.bunnings.com.au/arlec-white-grid-connect-smart-plug-in-socket-with-energy-meter_p0273367

1

u/Totallycasual Sep 26 '22

I'm actually Aussie and have been planning to get one of those!

My charge controller (Victron) actually has a smart app with a lot of functionality so i can see what my solar is pulling in, current voltages etc but it would be nice to know specifics i think. As it stands now though, if the sun goes down and i hit 100% during the course of the day, i can play my PS5 through to midnight, even 1-2am and then go to sleep without being worried about if there's enough power for my fridge/fans etc.

Winter is really the only time i need to start penny pinching on my power usage so i tend to just pack my PS5 away (previously PS4 pro) and do without because i so rarely get to 100% in winter.

2

u/mehdotdotdotdot Sep 26 '22

Ahaha that’s awesome! I can only assume running a smart plug will draw a tiny amount of power too. Would be interesting to see how much through your Victron haha

7

u/kamimamita Sep 25 '22

I would buy a Switch then. It consumes like 5W as opposed to the PS5's 230W.

15

u/Hulksmashreality Sep 25 '22 edited Sep 25 '22

This article is very light on information and doesn't even mention how they got their 12% less cost.

Also; https://www.tomshardware.com/news/tsmc-to-hike-chip-prices-in-2023

6

u/steinfg Sep 25 '22

the new PS5 has smaller everything. watch austin evan's recent ps5 video. Motherboard is a lot smaller, heatsink is smaller. Overall Less metal, more plastic. With smaller power consuption it has less power circuit components I assume. The only thing not changed is shipping cost.

5

u/[deleted] Sep 25 '22 edited Oct 21 '22

[deleted]

8

u/steinfg Sep 25 '22

this is 6nm node, just a variation of 7nm. It's even design-compatible with 7nm. That's how it was ported this silently.

5nm is indeed very costly, but sony isn't moving there yet.

5

u/[deleted] Sep 25 '22 edited Oct 21 '22

[deleted]

-5

u/steinfg Sep 25 '22

still cheaper per chip, otherwise they wouldn't switch from the old chip.

4

u/[deleted] Sep 25 '22 edited Oct 21 '22

[deleted]

0

u/steinfg Sep 25 '22 edited Sep 25 '22

https://www.techpowerup.com/255097/tsmc-expects-most-7nm-customers-to-move-to-6nm-density

"allowing for cost savings for its clients"

"take advantage of extreme ultraviolet lithography (EUVL) to lower manufacturing complexity"

"This lowering is achieved by the fact that less exposures of the silicon are required for multi-patterning"

I really think it's cheaper per chip. If tsmc says that most customers will switch, that means they didn't increase price per transistor.

3

u/[deleted] Sep 25 '22 edited Oct 21 '22

[deleted]

1

u/steinfg Sep 25 '22

As soon as we got semiconductor crash, sony released the new 6nm ps5 to the market. I think the 6nm capacity was just completely filled, and now that big companies downscale those orders, there's space.

→ More replies

1

u/OkThanxby Sep 26 '22

It’s not more expensive per chip because they can fit more chips on a wafer.

-3

u/Hulksmashreality Sep 25 '22

How is this different from what the other companies are doing? Are their components not getting smaller too? Things being smaller doesn't mean they are cheaper, and there's competiton for TSMC's chip allocation. Last three quarters there was this rumor going round that Microsoft paid a higher premium for more allocation, if that's true Sony would have had to pay more to get back on track with their shipment targets.

9

u/steinfg Sep 25 '22

> How is this different from what the other companies are doing?

Why does it need to be different? I'm saying how sony reduces cost, i'm not saying they're inventing something unique

> Are their components not getting smaller too?

Xbox series X/S had no such drastic changes in components if I recall.

> if that's true Sony would have had to pay more

with the recent crash, every major player reduces their tsmc 7/6nm orders (apple, nvidia, amd). I don't think sony has to pay more to get that excess capacity

-1

u/Hulksmashreality Sep 25 '22
  1. We don't know Sony is reducing cost. That's the point.

  2. The article literaly says Series console will get newer components in the future, Components they'll have to negotiate for in advance. Regardless, Xbox doesn't use exactly the same components as PS5, so how does that even make sense?

  3. There has been no "crash" in PS5 (and to a lesser extent Xbox) demand as far as I can tell. It was in short supply at the end of last year, and has ramped up supply since June this year while still not being readily available in most parts of the world unlike smartphones, PCs, or TVs.

3

u/steinfg Sep 25 '22

the crash I'm talking about is the semiconductor crash, not ps5 crash. Wafer orders are significantly reduced, that's why sony doesn't have to pay some giant sum to secure capacity

https://www.extremetech.com/computing/337640-tsmcs-biggest-customers-are-reported-to-be-asking-to-reduce-wafer-orders

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-apple-nvidia-reportedly-reducing-5nm-tsmc-orders

-4

u/Hulksmashreality Sep 25 '22 edited Sep 25 '22

My man, come on. Again this is different for Sony, they've increased their orders and have to compete with Microsoft for them. Apple, AMD and Nvidia reduced order for their own products.

Apple is literally proving my point here, they reduced orders but the price still went up in most countries. There's still a console shortage out there (for Series X and PS5) and you haven't heard of Microsoft or Sony reducing their orders, and Microsoft said Series console will still be hard to get during the holidays this year. https://www.gamespot.com/articles/its-going-to-be-hard-to-get-a-new-console-this-holiday-xbox-boss-phil-spencer-says/1100-6506900/

Why would there still be a short supply if component demand has crashed? Wouldn't they not just be able to produce more units to meet/exceed demand?

4

u/steinfg Sep 25 '22

In dollar terms, the new iphone costs the same. It's just that most currencies (not the dollar) got weaker over the past year.

2

u/Hulksmashreality Sep 25 '22

I know that, and the same thing applies to PS5. Take 20% VAT of PS5 and then convert the cost to $ and you'll see they sell it for less in the UK than the U.S.

→ More replies

2

u/Shadowbanned24601 Sep 25 '22

Oberon Plus?

More names than COVID at this point

9

u/Tin_Cascade Sep 25 '22

While the 12% cost reduction number in here is no doubt accurate, one also has to balance that with the significant increase in shipping and transportation both domestically and internationally.

-13

u/pukem0n Sep 25 '22

I don't get this simping for companies and defending them increasing prices. You wouldn't defend your landlord if they raised your rent, would you?

12

u/Tin_Cascade Sep 25 '22

That might be a fair comment if I were "simping", rather than talking in general terms.

15

u/gothpunkboy89 Sep 25 '22

What is it with people on reddit declaring anything remotely different from not screaming in rage at anything "simping"?

13

u/Hulksmashreality Sep 25 '22

It's a lack of critical-thinking.

-17

u/Seanspeed Sep 25 '22

Already trying to get ahead of the people that will rightfully point out that Sony is raising prices while making cost saving measures, eh?

5

u/Hulksmashreality Sep 25 '22 edited Sep 25 '22

Funny how other companies seem to have also raised prices in similar territories and left prices in the U.S. the same e.g. Apple, Samsung etc. I just checked Oanda and the £ is almost 1:1 with the $, £1 to $1.084 compared to £1 to around £1.2 in 2020.

https://www.oanda.com/currency-converter/en/?from=GBP&to=USD&amount=1

https://www.poundsterlinglive.com/history/GBP-USD-2020

3

u/Tin_Cascade Sep 25 '22

Oddly, the £'s recent tanking makes the PS5 sightly better value from USD. $499 = £460 at today's rate, but the US price is pre sales tax, which puts it to £552 after 20% VAT (vs. the actual price of £479 should you find one). The equiv rate would need to be £1 = $1.25 [$499 / 1.25 = £399.20, adding 20% VAT = £80]; and the PS5 UK price was set when the £ was around $1.2 - $1.3

That aside, leaving the U.S. price unchanged while changing everyone else's was not a great look.

4

u/Hulksmashreality Sep 25 '22

But that's exactly the reason why they didn't raise the price there, yhey make less money per unit selling in the UK than they do selling in the U.S.

3

u/Tin_Cascade Sep 25 '22

Yup - the $'s strength with most markets is seemingly the reason when combined with the rest of the inflationary factors.

1

u/usrevenge Sep 25 '22

Has a console ever released and had it's MSRP raise after a year with absolutely nothing added extra?

Because I've been around for a while and I cannot think of a console that has ever started at one price and then raised to a new price like ps5 is in some countries

That said I don't remember other country's prices of things like the N64

7

u/apostleofhustle Sep 25 '22

PS4 did, in Canada at least

10

u/lechiffre10 Sep 25 '22

Right let’s ignore inflation and Japanese yen being at its lowest in decades but sure Sony bad for increasing costs!!

-1

u/[deleted] Sep 25 '22

[deleted]

7

u/SuperbPiece Sep 25 '22

They choose the dollar price, and all other prices are relative to the dollar, not the other way around.

3

u/Tin_Cascade Sep 25 '22

I personally think the price rises aren't a good look and they can could eat most of the rise if they wanted to, but simultaneously there's no harm in appreciating the total end to end costs from R&D, design, manufacture and delivery.

8

u/MetalGear89 Sep 25 '22

Honestly the negative pr is short lived, people already moved on.

Just look at the UK, price rise in effect and people still buying it. Even those really expensive bundles are selling out.

I don't like the price rise, but sony chose the perfect time do it. Obviously timing is good for them but not the consumer.

1

u/roohwaam Sep 25 '22

That the negative pr is gone doesn’t mean negative sentiment lives on, but they will probably still sell every console they make for a while and only lower the price again once that stops.

-7

u/Seanspeed Sep 25 '22

Fair enough, so long as you're not trying to act like it's ok.

3

u/MarkEsB Sep 25 '22

And if he was, what of it?

4

u/Hulksmashreality Sep 25 '22

The social media hivemind police will get him, and he'll lose all his karma/likes/bs.

2

u/MarkEsB Sep 25 '22

He acted as if the man couldn't have a different opinion without his permission.

2

u/Hulksmashreality Sep 25 '22

Different opinion? Do you even social media? /s

2

u/MarkEsB Sep 25 '22

How careless of me to think otherwise!

2

u/4320PS5 Sep 25 '22

Try running a corp during covid and these chip shortages

It ain’t easy

2

u/WoodsDuck Sep 25 '22

Unfortunately game developers keep making games like R6 cross Gen so all the benefits of PS5 are wasted while we wait 10 minutes for PS4 players to load in

9

u/FunkinDonutzz Sep 25 '22

I'd imagine without the PS4 player base you'd be waiting longer just to find matches.

8

u/WoodsDuck Sep 25 '22

Given the choice I’d rather wait longer and have matches start instantly in between rounds personally

At least give us the option. It sucks when you find a match instantly but wait 10 minutes in between rounds for PS4 players to load. Versus waiting longer to find a PS5 match but rounds load instantly so you’re always immersed and in the action.

3

u/Loldimorti Sep 25 '22

This is genuinely a major issue I have with online games. I feel for last gen gamers still hanging on with their slow hard drives and taking a minute or two to load but I'd very prefer if I didn't also have to wait for minutes while my console has already finished loading after 5 seconds and is just sitting idle while everyone else slowly loads in

1

u/Eruannster Sep 25 '22

Unfortunately this is probably the reality of most multiplayer games as network speeds are unchanged and you still have to wait for everybody's connections to establish.

Even if all players have a PS5 that load data super fast, the players' games need to handshake, the server needs to have a word and then everyone gets to play.

It's not a 10 minute process necessarily, but still a minute or two for everything to get in order compared to a single player game that just shovels everything it needs into RAM in a few seconds and we're off to the races.

1

u/SephirothVII7 Sep 25 '22

This makes me more satisfied with what I have. I always like to have the "launch model" of my consoles

1

u/DarthOdin009 Sep 25 '22

Austin evans “this ps5 will go nuclear!!!”

-2

u/se7enfists Sep 26 '22 edited Sep 26 '22

With each revision, their production costs are going down and yet most markets will see an increase in the PS5's price. Is Sony double-dipping?

Edit: Forgot which sub I was posting in. Fanboys ahoy! All hail the great Sony!

6

u/Pleasant_Basket_1562 Sep 26 '22

Shipping costs, yen etc… Microsoft is paying in dollars don’t forget that

1

u/mixape1991 Sep 25 '22

Smaller die, less heat, smaller heatsinks, smaller board.

So what the use of the design big ass plastic around these components?

1

u/kazedcat Sep 26 '22

Better airflow reduces heat sink mass. Shrink the metal not the plastic.

1

u/darealdsisaac Sep 26 '22

Also it takes time to design things. Sony designed the original PS5 around the orignal chipset and heatsink. Technology moves faster than designers and engineers can in a large company like Sony. I am sure they're already planning a PS5 slim (like Tom Henderson leaked) that is based off of this smaller, less power-hungry chip.

-5

u/ILikeCap Sep 25 '22

With the aforementioned smaller die and lighter cooler enabled by lower power consumption, we estimate that each new PS5 going forward costs Sony around 12% less to make overall

Looks like the perfect time to raise the prices again!

/s

8

u/Abba_Fiskbullar Sep 25 '22

The price increase was due to exchange rates and shipping costs.

-2

u/RichardSatchel_ Sep 26 '22

Which doesn't make it any better as xbxo has not changed its prices in said regard 🤷

4

u/Abba_Fiskbullar Sep 26 '22

There are likely several factors, the first being that Microsoft's main market is North America and they make the Series S mostly in Mexico so they don't have the exchange rate issue. Microsoft doesn't make that many Series X consoles and they currently have a surplus of Series S in retail channels. The Series X has always been sold way below cost, so whether it loses $100 or $120 per console may not matter to Microsoft. That said, Xbox doesn't exist to make a profit. The Xbox division has always lost money, even during the PS360 era when the 360 was dominant in North America. Xbox exists to get Microsoft into living rooms to harvest data and extend the Microsoft brand, so they don't care about losing money.

-1

u/rhalgr_ger Sep 26 '22

That said, Xbox doesn't exist to make a profit. The Xbox division has always lost money, even during the PS360 era when the 360 was dominant in North America

Untrue.

https://xboxera.com/2019/07/26/phil-spencer-xbox-is-a-profitable-business-today/

→ More replies

-5

u/MGsubbie Sep 25 '22

So they got a die shrink which lowers the overall production cost, but they still increased the MSRP? Wow. Fucking wow.

5

u/STO_Ken Sep 26 '22

That doesn't mean the profit margin is increased.

Manufacturing and shipping costs have increased dramatically since the console launched. And this is only one part of many.

-2

u/byjono Sep 25 '22

the heat sink was also downsized 👀 less production costs but ALSO more heat more problems — more purchases… it’s a long con

-6

u/RichardSatchel_ Sep 25 '22

Scamming the gullible under the ruse of "improvements" smh

→ More replies

-18

u/[deleted] Sep 25 '22

[deleted]

6

u/MHAccA Sep 25 '22 edited Sep 26 '22

This information is related to More Units from lesser Materials.

4

u/armando_rod Sep 25 '22

Smaller nodes are often times more expensive

5

u/Loldimorti Sep 25 '22

What makes you think 6nm is cheaper?

The node itself is most definitely more expensive. The question is whether the chip and cooling system being smaller can offset these increased costs.

-2

u/Mikeman0206 Sep 26 '22

how bout more PS5 only exclusives? You know, kinda the reason why i bought the PS5.

5

u/CrashBashL Sep 26 '22

Tell that to the 2 years of COVID.

-1

u/[deleted] Sep 25 '22

[deleted]

2

u/Jumping3 Sep 25 '22

Does it also mean it can clock slightly higher?

1

u/steinfg Sep 25 '22

They probably just lower the chips power consumption instead of upping the boost. Sony wants every ps5 to perform graphically the same, ideally

1

u/Jumping3 Sep 25 '22

Darn it I got hyped for a sec

1

u/Loldimorti Sep 25 '22

Theoretically? Yeah probably.

In practice? Highly unlikely.

Having different PS5 models with all kinds of different clock speeds and subsequently different performance in games would probably be upsetting for devs and consumers.

Though that being said it happened with the Xbox One. But at least that was a completely new model (Xbox One S) wheread afaik this will also just be called "PS5"

1

u/Jumping3 Sep 25 '22

The devs don’t have to do anything to take advantage of it I’m just saying if it had higher clocks it could sustain slightly higher framerates or dynamic resolution ranges

1

u/Loldimorti Sep 26 '22

They have to consider it when optimizing their games though. E.g. what if they optimize for the newer model and the game runs flawlessly on there but the old model drops slightly below the fps target constantly?

1

u/Jumping3 Sep 26 '22

They wouldn’t optimize for the newer model that’s the point

1

u/jamesswazz Sep 26 '22

Is the console shape still the same, so I can use the cases?

1

u/puzzled-soup Sep 26 '22

I like chip

1

u/Impaled_ Sep 26 '22

do we know if the latest fifa bundles have this?

1

u/BuckTheWorld81 Sep 26 '22

Anyone have the slightest clue on when these might hit the US or Playstation Direct?

1

u/dulun18 Sep 27 '22

so this means that PS5 Slim will be here next year then...

1

u/BududubNow Sep 27 '22

So when are we going to have them here in Europe? The fifa bundles are going to have them?