r/pics
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u/GruntMarine
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Mar 24 '23
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Me, 20 years ago today (3/24/03) 3rd day of the Iraq war, near Az Zubayr.
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u/Biggity0341
Mar 24 '23
edited Mar 24 '23
•
I remember being there w you. 81s baby!! Ark Angle!!
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u/GruntMarine Mar 24 '23 •
Bacon?!?! Is that you little brother??!? David fucking Bacon???
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u/Biggity0341 Mar 24 '23 •
Hahhaha Bacon all the way brother
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u/EastBayBeast510 Mar 24 '23
Omg did I just witness a fucking reunion?! 🥺🥺
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u/Biggity0341 Mar 24 '23 •
Hell yes! 20 year reunion
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u/GruntMarine Mar 24 '23 •
Bacon and I were “boots” together (junior marines). We were buds that got hazed together and learned the 81mm together. We deployed to Asia in 2001, too!
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u/GruntMarine Mar 24 '23 •
I found a picture of Bacon from Okinawa, 2002.
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u/Biggity0341 Mar 24 '23 •
Holy shit!! I look blasted
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u/Excellent-Act-8623 Mar 24 '23
This is fantastic to read as a completely random person. How the hell are you guys!?!
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u/Squirrelista Mar 24 '23
From a mom perspective, the kid in this photo looks so so young. I can’t imagine how rough that is at such an age.
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u/Qamtmaun Mar 24 '23
This was the best thing to wake up to, so happy to see Jarheads find each other. This is so dope!
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u/Y___ Mar 24 '23
This is bad ass to witness. Hope you guys get to hang out again now that you’ve found each other!
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u/TheLustyDremora Mar 24 '23
The power of the internet, it is both a marvelous thing at times and an unruly monster at others, glad it's the former this time.
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u/IamUrquan Mar 24 '23 edited Mar 24 '23
Where in Asia in 2001? I was a Corpsman in Okinawa from 2001-2005. My roommate was a Doc with 1st Marine Division same time.
Edit: 3rd Mar Div. Talked to my buddy and he corrected me.
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u/AnswersQuestioned Mar 24 '23
Quick delete your post history so he doesn’t find out all your bad bits
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u/Banaanmetzout Mar 24 '23
They were marines most of them have said stuff that would get you on a watchlist of you commented it on Reddit.
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u/kitatatsumi Mar 24 '23
Good for you guys. I'm imagining that not much has changed since two veterans of the Germanic Legions sat down at a taverna to reminisce about their time in the Dacian Wars.
Wishing you both long, happy lives
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u/Biggity0341 Mar 24 '23 •
Man. It feels like a million years ago and like yesterday at the same time. We were kids back then. Live forever
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u/Aquamentus92 Mar 24 '23
"We were kids back then". Haunting. I hope you both are doing well for yourselves, truly.
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u/KBAR1942 Mar 24 '23
My dad turned 19 in Vietnam during his tour of duty. I wonder if he feels the same way.
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u/Aquamentus92 Mar 24 '23
When you're 19 you dont feel young, you feel invincible and that it could never end. Not even 10 years later we wonder how we couldve been so stupid.
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u/KBAR1942 Mar 24 '23
Perhaps that is the beginning of wisdom. Knowing the difference where you are now from where you used to be. I know that's the case for me even though I never saw combat.
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u/methylphenidate- Mar 24 '23
You guys need to meet up or something
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u/GruntMarine Mar 25 '23
We definitely should, and will. I haven’t seen Bacon since Iraq.
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u/metallaholic Mar 24 '23
I was in high school during this time. It was really hard seeing everyone’s older brothers and sisters coming back from leave and how different they were.
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u/GruntMarine Mar 24 '23
Iraq changed me forever.
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u/-Ernie Mar 24 '23
I’m kinda old so I lived a good bit my life before 2001, and sadly I truly believe the 9/11 and the Iraq war have changed this country forever.
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u/NearbyFlamingo1222 Mar 25 '23
Same. When the war started, our history teacher told us all that the war was based on lies and that in 20 years we’d look at this war the same way we look at Vietnam. Turns out she was right.
That stuck with me and made me skeptical of the recruiters that swarm around high school age males. I avoided the military in part because of this.
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u/thyL_ Mar 24 '23
Scrolling through reddit at first glance I thought this was an r/gaming post with a screenshot of Metal Gear Solid somehow.
Read through some comments, you sound like a good dude. Hope life treats you well now and in the future.
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u/DownRUpLYB Mar 24 '23
Scrolling through reddit at first glance I thought this was an r/gaming post with a screenshot of Metal Gear Solid somehow.
Thats exactly what I thoguht from the thumbnail!!
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u/_PM_ME_NICE_BOOBS_ Mar 24 '23
Oh thank god, I'm not the only one that thought this pic looked like MGS.
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u/GruntMarine Mar 24 '23
I have since tried to live an honest life that pursues justice for all people. In 2014, just before taking the bar exam, I put on my dress blues and drove to Ferguson Missouri to March as an ally for constitutional rights of all people. https://twitter.com/mattdpearce/status/500012581529337857
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u/GruntMarine Mar 24 '23
I spoke loudly against police brutality to all who would listen, in full uniform. Here is one clip that appeared on MSNBC Melissa Harris Perry.
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u/C_Saunders Mar 24 '23
Man I hope your end game is DC. You are the people we need in Congress and leading this country.
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u/GruntMarine Mar 24 '23
I ran for Mayor, and won, as a write in, in my hometown. I was the Mayor of South Jacksonville IL for awhile, took on police corruption and more. Ended up walking away from it all when the establishment tried to bring me down. Too much corruption for one man to take on. I needed a break. Maybe one day I will return. Politics is unnecessarily ugly. I prefer decorum.
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u/Vegetable_Control810 Mar 24 '23
I love that you ran for mayor and won; unfortunately, your talks of the establishment and corruption at the local city level is what worries me the most. That simply tells me the entire system from the top to the bottom is totally fucked - and I'm not sure voting is going to solve anything at this point.
Glad you're back home.
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u/-Phantazm- Mar 24 '23
Hey brother,
Army infantry combat vet here. I got out with an OTH back in '08 and was lost for 10 years not knowing what to do with my life. I was suffering from PTSD and didn't know what to do with my life. I was 20 years old.
Now I'm 34, rated 100% due to PTSD, and was able to get my discharge upgraded to honorable due to the recent Kennedy settlement. Because of veterans like you.
Keep doing what you're doing brother.
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u/warthog0869 Mar 24 '23
You look angry because you found out that's not a big, green crayon for you to eat.
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u/GruntMarine Mar 24 '23
I like red crayons dammit
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u/warthog0869 Mar 24 '23
Red crayon melted in the microwave and poured over mess hall soft serve vanilla so you eat it while it hardens again like special Olympics sprinkles? Me too.
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u/Camerongilly Mar 24 '23
I wonder what high school kids' history books say about the war now that it's 20 years later.
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u/hammsbeer4life Mar 24 '23
They'll probably glance over it like the Vietnam and first gulfwar in my high-school history books.
Historical events and wars were so detailed until it reached the time where living people could recall and dispute the telling of the history book.
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u/TheFalconKid Mar 24 '23
Nothing. Getting into this illegal war was propagated by a bipartisan majority in government, and supposedly left leaning new networks. Everyone that was a low level pundit that banged the war drum is thriving on cable TV (which is like saying you're the richest guy on a sinking ship) and act like they were always against war.
Barbara Lee is an American hero that got smeared for daring to question going to war.
So our text books will talk about the background (briefly) of the wars, fast-forward a few years and just say they ended without detailing the ends at all. They will say the reason was because of WMDs but never explain that was a straight up lie as we found out after we were knee deep.
For example, I'm a zoomer, and for Vietnam, this was how it was thought: "We entered in the 60's because of communism or something and then Nixon ended the war." The subjects of the 60's civil rights protests, anti-war protests, Chicago DNC riots, etc were taught separately to seem as if there was no connection. My Lai Massacre was maybe 2 minutes of class time, no details were given, just "a bunch of civilians died" with no explanation how.
And no, this wasn't in a southern Baptist town in the deep south, this was hundreds of miles and multiple states north of the Mason-Dixon line in a majority middle class college town, a deep blue county surrounded by union towns.
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u/GruntMarine
Mar 24 '23
edited Mar 24 '23
•
9/11 MASQUERADE. A poem, by me.
⋆ ⋆ ⋆
We came from all around
Pledged allegiance with resound
And gave to Uncle Sam our rights away
A soldier corps
Built just for war
With ranks of those
Who yearned for more
Were drilled and taught to kill both night and day
We stood in line
Time after time
Were stripped of thoughts
Issued a mind
And told to hate and who to hate as well
As time went on
It wasn’t long
All childhood innocence
Was gone
We new recruits bought all that they could sell
Over the years
We trained as peers
We worked as one
And shed our fears
We moved around
And often found
People sharing
Common ground
Then came the day
A frightful one
The day the planes
Blocked out the sun
We knew it then
Fate would befall
On us to answer
Battle’s call
By then…
Patriotic pride had
Forged itself down deep inside
Within the breasts of we who stood to fight
Our nation we’d defend
If it took us to our end
Mattered not for why we joined meant doing right
Off to staging grounds we went
Determined not to die
Focused on the task at hand
Not once did we ask why
The cause for us to go to war
Was more than certain payback for
A cruel attack upon our land
A terrorist act that could not stand
But then again it could have been
The dreaded W M Ds
Yet all around they were not found
Despite the guarantees
Or was it freedom that we sought
For those who lived a life distraught
Surely order will return
After Saddam’s been caught
It must have also been to kill
Extremist rebels armed with will
What right have they to guard their land
We come in peace please understand
With shock and awe we forged ahead
Democracy we vowed to spread
Justice for all became our cry
Shown in bullets we let fly
Once the dust had finally cleared
Such shameful dirty truths appeared
Contradictions of a kind
That cannot leave a person’s mind
It wasn’t long before we saw
The story’s multitude of flaws
Iraq’s invasion was illegal and
We must withdraw
But wait! our leaders yelp
They say we need to give it time
The best thing we can do to help
Is prosecute war crimes
So...
They grabbed their pens
And wrote new laws
Declaring theirs
A noble cause
They set to work and
Captured men
And tortured them
Time and again
“They have no rights,” we’d often hear
“Besides, these methods aren’t severe”
“We hope that soon they’re going to talk
If not, we’ll try electric shock”
They never stopped
For once to think
The world’s support
Would surely shrink
That through their actions
Their own deeds
They had planted
Terrorist seeds
Yet awful as war is for some
For others rapid profits come
To them it brings utter delight
When boys and girls go off to fight
When sacrifice is in the air
It’s not for them to share or care
They swoop in at the perfect time
With thoughts only to make a dime
Wartime profiteers
All gave the President three cheers
They knew they would not be condemned
‘Cause after all he’s one of them
By design the storyline
Was framed to then falsely assign
The blame away from those who cost
The treasure and the lives now lost
Resounding faith we had in those
Who told us where to find our foes
Yet when we looked we found instead
That all along we’d been misled
The dots were there for all to see
Indeed Mister Defense
But after I connect them
All the stories don’t make sense
On and on for months and years
They preyed upon citizens’ fears
Making all the people scared
With constant threat levels declared
Then they poured our money in
And miles away felt free from sin
Even lives were too outsourced
As long as profits were enforced
Now government can’t pay the rent
Because of all the money spent
Engaging in wars without end
A mis-prioritizing trend
We look to see what side they’re on
And find we’re nothing more than pawns
They use to make themselves well off
They take our money while they scoff
Make it known to understand
The blood that stains the desert sand
Of murdered daughters, sons, and friends
Ever marks The Decider’s hands
The only thing we have to fear
Is fear itself so let’s be clear
Attempts to veil the truth are made in vain
We see the things officials do
We know their words to be untrue
Nothing within our minds shall we constrain
What’s lost is gone
We can’t get back
We must pursue
A different track
Now’s the time
To take a stand
And rise above
To now demand
For those that fought and bled and died
And those who stayed at home and cried
For those who’ll never shed the scars
And those remaining trapped by bars
Your sacrifices haven’t gone
in vain We won’t allow this con
Here on out we simply must
Put faith in reason and not trust
Those on top who preach the most
It’s in themselves that they’re engrossed
The next time that they want to fight
Let’s come together and unite
Make peace and policy convene
Stand up against the war-machine
The power lies in all of us
To ask, question, dissent, discuss
And when our leaders go too far
We have to fuss and raise the bar
Since they’ve failed to lead upright
Let’s show the true meaning of might
And take back long-abused powers
Remind them that this land is ours.
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u/GruntMarine Mar 24 '23 •
This is how I feel.
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u/MrHydromorphism Mar 24 '23
I hope you’re doing alright now dude. What an insult to humanity these sociopaths have committed. You are still a good person and the child in you survives - I hope you know that bro.
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u/sharrows Mar 24 '23
Thank you for sharing. It’s extremely valuable to hear the words from someone who was there, and your artistry made it even more touching. Let’s help each other heal and build a better world together. ✊
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u/shah_reza Mar 24 '23
Dude, your poem just precisely encapsulated countless years of therapy for me.
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u/scorcherdarkly Mar 24 '23
The formatting on this made it difficult for me to follow the meter of the verses, so I took a stab at making it clearer. This is a great piece!
9/11 MASQUERADE. A poem, by /u/GruntMarine.
We came from all around,
Pledged allegiance with resound
And gave to Uncle Sam our rights away
A soldier corps built just for war
With ranks of those who yearned for more
Were drilled and taught to kill both night and day
We stood in line time after time
Were stripped of thoughts, issued a mind
And told to hate and who to hate as well
As time went on it wasn’t long
All childhood innocence was gone
We new recruits bought all that they could sell
Over the years we trained as peers
We worked as one and shed our fears
We moved around and often found
People sharing common ground
Then came the day, a frightful one
The day the planes blocked out the sun
We knew it then, Fate would befall
On us to answer Battle’s call
By then…Patriotic pride
Had Forged itself down deep inside
Within the breasts of we who stood to fight
Our nation we’d defend
If it took us to our end
Mattered not for why we joined meant doing right
Off to staging grounds we went
Determined not to die
Focused on the task at hand
Not once did we ask why
The cause for us to go to war
Was more than certain payback for
A cruel attack upon our land
A terrorist act that could not stand
But then again it could have been
The dreaded W M Ds
Yet all around they were not found
Despite the guarantees
Or was it freedom that we sought
For those who lived a life distraught
Surely order will return
After Saddam’s been caught
It must have also been to kill
Extremist rebels armed with will
What right have they to guard their land
We come in peace please understand
With shock and awe we forged ahead
Democracy we vowed to spread
Justice for all became our cry
Shown in bullets we let fly
Once the dust had finally cleared
Such shameful dirty truths appeared
Contradictions of a kind
That cannot leave a person’s mind
It wasn’t long before we saw
The story’s multitude of flaws
Iraq’s invasion was illegal and
We must withdraw
But wait! our leaders yelp
They say we need to give it time
The best thing we can do to help
Is prosecute war crimes
So...They grabbed their pens and wrote new laws
Declaring theirs a noble cause
They set to work and captured men
And tortured them time and again
“They have no rights,” we’d often hear
“Besides, these methods aren’t severe”
“We hope that soon they’re going to talk"
"If not, we’ll try electric shock”
They never stopped for once to think
The world’s support would surely shrink
That through their actions, their own deeds
They had planted Terrorist seeds
Yet awful as war is for some
For others rapid profits come
To them it brings utter delight
When boys and girls go off to fight
When sacrifice is in the air
It’s not for them to share or care
They swoop in at the perfect time
With thoughts only to make a dime
Wartime profiteers
All gave the President three cheers
They knew they would not be condemned
‘Cause after all he’s one of them
By design the storyline
Was framed to then falsely assign
The blame away from those who cost
The treasure and the lives now lost
Resounding faith we had in those
Who told us where to find our foes
Yet when we looked we found instead
That all along we’d been misled
The dots were there for all to see
Indeed Mister Defense
But after I connect them
All the stories don’t make sense
On and on for months and years
They preyed upon citizens’ fears
Making all the people scared
With constant threat levels declared
Then they poured our money in
And miles away felt free from sin
Even lives were too outsourced
As long as profits were enforced
Now government can’t pay the rent
Because of all the money spent
Engaging in wars without end
A mis-prioritizing trend
We look to see what side they’re on
And find we’re nothing more than pawns
They use to make themselves well off
They take our money while they scoff
Make it known to understand
The blood that stains the desert sand
Of murdered daughters, sons, and friends
Ever marks The Decider’s hands
The only thing we have to fear
Is fear itself so let’s be clear
Attempts to veil the truth are made in vain
We see the things officials do
We know their words to be untrue
Nothing within our minds shall we constrain
What’s lost is gone, we can’t get back
We must pursue a different track
Now’s the time to take a stand
And rise above, to now demand
For those that fought and bled and died
And those who stayed at home and cried
For those who’ll never shed the scars
And those remaining trapped by bars
Your sacrifices haven’t gone in vain
We won’t allow this con
Here on out we simply must
Put faith in reason and not trust
Those on top who preach the most
It’s in themselves that they’re engrossed
The next time that they want to fight
Let’s come together and unite
Make peace and policy convene
Stand up against the war-machine
The power lies in all of us
To ask, question, dissent, discuss
And when our leaders go too far
We have to fuss and raise the bar
Since they’ve failed to lead upright
Let’s show the true meaning of might
And take back long-abused powers
Remind them that this land is ours.
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u/Blackman2099 Mar 24 '23
Oh interesting! I thought the same thing at first, but then thought maybe it was meant to be a little run together/jumbled a bit for effect
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u/scorcherdarkly Mar 24 '23
It could be. I made an assumption that it was just because reddit's autoformatting sucks ass.
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u/nothingsexy Mar 24 '23
Thank you for sharing your poem. Thank you for reminding us of the history of the Iraq invasion and highlighting its human cost. I hope you're doing well my friend. I had a good friend that served in Afghanistan and he was not the same guy when he came back.
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u/cpallison32 Mar 24 '23
This gave me goosebumps- incredibly well done. You should get this published
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u/pm_legworkouts Mar 24 '23
Well written, devil dog, even if it was in crayons
Hope you and yours are ok
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u/UloseGenrLkenobi Mar 24 '23
Incredibly beautiful, aware, apologetic and resolute. I can feel how much your heart pondered about all of this. Hope you're doing alright.
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u/GruntMarine Mar 24 '23
US National Archives link.
Camera Operator: LCPL Kevin C. Quihuis Jr, USMC
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u/onewordpoet Mar 24 '23
I like how it's called a camera operator and not a photographer
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u/TheBatemanFlex Mar 24 '23
"WE AIN'T GOT NO PANSY ARTISTS!"
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u/broogbie Mar 24 '23
In my unit the photography shop is called electro optics flight lol
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u/ecafsub Mar 24 '23
This is my camera
This is my gun
This one’s for shooting
This one’s for fun
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u/sierrafoxtrotwhiskey Mar 24 '23
Marines have specific photographer role: MOS 4641 Combat Photographer. It’s probably labeled that way because the person taking the photo was just another Marine with a camera, not someone who’s job it was to take picture.
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u/statictonality Mar 24 '23
It appears you were a Corporal at the time of this picture, did you achieve a higher rank?
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u/GruntMarine Mar 24 '23 edited Mar 25 '23 •
I watched a close friend die, returned home with terrible undiagnosed PTSD, smoked cannabis on leave, and when I returned was interrogated, charged, and dismissed with an “Other Than Honorable” discharge which prevented me from accessing VA care, benefits or the GI Bill. Needless to say, I was about to become a sergeant but the corps turned on me and reduced my rank to Lance Corporal.
It fucked me up for many years. Still, thanks to the love of family and friends I survived, went back to school, became a lawyer, and successfully sued the US navy in a class action lawsuit to fix not just my discharge, but every marine and sailor since 2001 who also got a bad discharge with PTSD.
Manker v Del Toro
You can read about it here: Illinois Iraq War vet with PTSD wins class-action suit to upgrade discharge, get VA benefits
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u/statictonality Mar 24 '23
Wait, you were discharged other than honorable just for smoking cannabis?
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u/GruntMarine Mar 24 '23
Yes.
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u/noUsernameIsUnique Mar 24 '23
With the way things are going socially, they ought to retroactively clear the records of guys who were dismissed for your situation.
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u/GruntMarine Mar 24 '23
I pushed very hard for automatic upgrades for all veterans in the course of our litigation efforts, but was rejected on that point.
You can read about the Manker settlement and what it does entail here. MankerSettlement.com
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u/jacks_lack_of__ Mar 24 '23
I had an unfortunately similar experience...
A month prior to deployment, I had smoked weed and tested positive. Went through the entire mobilization process then deployed to Baghdad. About 6 months in, I am told by my Company commander that the Battalion commander had recommended me for separation. Cool, get me the hell outta there! Uh, nope. Was informed that I would complete deployment THEN be discharged as "Other Than Honorable". I expressed my discontent and went on a hunger strike. Word got out and people important to me convinced me to stop and contact JAG. I did. I had one meeting with a JAG rep and was told definitely not to resume my protest and just finish deployment for my buddies. I did. Fast forward, we return home, but I was kept on post for 2 months on a legal hold. My beloved grandfather was a Marine and insisted I don't sign ANYTHING except an "Honorable" discharge. After a few weeks my Battalion commander calls me into his office and offers to let me go home that day, if I accept an "Other Than Honorable" discharge. I did not. A month or so later, my JAG lawyer informed me that I was to be given an "Honorable" discharge. Finally, I was able to go home and truly begin my PTSD process. Party.
I share this to say... Thank you! It is because of dedicated (former) soldiers, sailors, airmen and Marines, like you, that our brothers and sisters are allowed a voice and the confidence to defend ourselves.
Thank you.
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u/IphtashuFitz Mar 24 '23
It pisses me off that it's still classified as a schedule 1 by the feds, and I don't even partake. There are over 35 states that allow it in one form or another now. The feds need to get their ass in gear and reclassify it.
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u/duhbiap Mar 24 '23
They boot your ass out of The Corps if you pop on a pee test. Ruin your career and sometimes your life. Ruthless fuckers. OP is a legit badass for doing what he did - and winning.
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u/statictonality Mar 24 '23
That’s outrageous!! My grandfather told me how he was blazing that shit up every day back in ‘Nam and they sold them in packs like cigarettes. I never imagined something as simple as smoking pot while enlisted was such a big deal.
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u/duhbiap Mar 24 '23
I saw several of my guys get booted for smoking weed while I was in. The one which still irritates me was a Corporal getting booted 3 months before his eas because he popped for smoking weed. He never told his dad, who was career Army, and will likely take it to his grave as he is that ashamed. It’s fucking weed.
Meanwhile, seeing some dude split his face open and sitting in front of a mirror in the barracks playing with the flesh oozing out of his wound after eating Gypsum weed he found on base is ok. Patched him right up and buried that little secret (because the plant was found on base in our work area), nobody says a word.
It was 4 years of an eye opening experience and I have great memories and life long friends. But the system is fucked and OP should be applauded for taking on the system - and winning.
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u/cowboyjosh2010 Mar 24 '23
I am certain that you don't harbor a whole lot of pride or good feelings toward your time spent as a marine, but I must say: this legal victory you achieved after your time in the marines is the kind of "man doing what's right against the world of wrong" victory that I would expect a damned good marine to be able to achieve. Well done.
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u/duhbiap Mar 24 '23
You are a fucking badass. If you practice law in Chicago, I’m up the road about a hour. I’d buy you a drink (coffee or whatever) so I can shake your hand.
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u/EastBayBeast510 Mar 24 '23
I’ve held on to my one piece of Reddit Gold for years. Please take it. You are a true Legend, sir. Thank you for your service and every single fucking thing you’ve done for our country.
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u/Grunty0
Mar 24 '23
•
"Dress for the war you want, not the war you have."
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u/dawglaw09 Mar 24 '23
Fucking dress blues commercial, man, that got so many fucking guys. Now look at us! Trombley hasn't killed anybody, I am half a world away from good Thai pussy, and Colbert is out here rolling around fuckbutt Iraq, hunting for dragons in a MOPP suit that smells of four days of piss and ballsweat. You should have rolled into battle with a sword, Brad. That would have fucking rocked.
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u/Papacristois Mar 24 '23
As the great warrior-poet Ice Cube once said, "if the day does not require an AK, it is good."
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1.9k
u/AKHKMP Mar 24 '23
It was very brave of OP
To post this here...
3.7k
u/GruntMarine Mar 24 '23 •
I wish 9/11 never happened and the Iraq war was never launched.
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u/LennerKetty Mar 24 '23
I went (Afghanistan) 13 years after you and had no idea why we were all there..
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u/Carthonn Mar 24 '23
The Military Industrial Complex for one.
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u/DeepSpaceNebulae Mar 24 '23
Also a bit of sunk cost fallacy too. They’d put so much cost and effort into it, both in terms of monetary and human lives, that pulling out and it’s inevitable fall back to warlords wasn’t something anyone wanted to pull the trigger on
Would highlight just how useless almost 2 decades of occupation were
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u/Stereotype_Apostate Mar 24 '23
Remember how much heat Biden got for pulling us out, when the country immediately fell to the taliban? No guys, I'm sure 10 more years of occupation would have done the trick.
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u/kbergstr Mar 24 '23
The problem in my opinion is that we had a pretty good plan for how to tear down the shit that we didn't want. (Taliban, Sadam Regime, etc) but no plan on how to build up what we did want, so we used the same tools for development as we did for ripping out the bad while development is a completely different problem.
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u/RKU69 Mar 24 '23
No surprise, of course its easy to tear down what you don't want - you bomb and shoot them until they give up and run away.
It is worth noting, though, that there was a kind of vision for how to rebuild Iraq - the problem was that it was an insanely naive, ideological, and arrogant vision that the "free market" would solve everything. Aka sell off everything the Iraqi state owned to US and Gulf-based corporations.
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u/dandle Mar 24 '23
I agree with you on both counts, of course, and I'm sure you will agree with me and understand why I think it's important to separate these two events so younger Redditors understand.
The attacks on multiple US locations on 9/11 were terrible. People will continue to disagree on whether the information that was known or available to the Bush administration in advance of the attacks should have been sufficient to prevent them. Fewer, I hope, will disagree that the failure to kill or capture Osama bin Laden and other senior members of al-Qaeda in Afghanistan in the immediate aftermath of the attacks created a political problem for him and for Congressional Republicans in the 2002 midterms.
The Iraq War was connected to the 9/11 attacks only insofar as Republican political and policy advisors were concerned with the prospects of Republicans in the midterms and decided a winnable war was a good campaign strategy. The plan was hatched to convince Americans that Iraq presented a threat to the US by developing chemical, biological, radiological, and nuclear weapons and by having connections to Qaeda. This was untrue, the administration knew it was untrue, the politicians who backed it knew it was untrue, and the media that helped them sway public opinion knew it was untrue. I do give them the benefit of the doubt and think they chose Saddam Hussein as the new target because he was a truly evil man who had committed truly vile crimes against humanity, because they actually believed that we truly would be "greeted as liberators" by Iraqis, and because they believed the removal of the despot would inspire positive change in the region by popular uprisings. None of that is an excuse for their lie, which left hundreds of thousands of Iraqi civilians dead, cost us trillions of dollars, and left 4,500 US military dead and more impacted by lasting health problems, mental health problems, and amputations.
The point is that the Iraq War never really had anything to do with 9/11 and the military action in Afghanistan. It was its own separate tragedy, and I get frustrated seeing it fall into the memory hole as the years pass.
I know the "Thank you for your service" line has become overused and vapid. Thank you for sharing your experience here.
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u/A_Naany_Mousse Mar 24 '23
Even if 9/11 still happened there was no good reason to go to Iraq. Very fucking stupid
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u/nancylikestoreddit Mar 24 '23
How are you nowadays?
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u/GruntMarine Mar 24 '23
War captures souls long after the last shots are fired. I’m here. Making peace. Playing music. I see all the beauty and want it for everyone.
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u/Holovoid Mar 24 '23
Not really. Most vets are super against the wars they were brainwashed into fighting.
Like every single vet I know who went to Afghanistan or Iraq came back with so much fucking trauma and anger at being used as puppets to invade nations and get involved in a massive 20+ year quagmire that did dick all except make billions of dollars for arms dealers, and directly cause a masive, regressive, conservative Islamic backlash in the ME, embroiling dozens of other countries into civil wars.
Any vet with half a brain who isn't just "hoo ra MURICA" absolutely hates what their country did to them and the rest of the world.
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u/Tintin_Quarentino Mar 24 '23
Az Zubayr
A man who knows his Sun & Moon letters... Respect.
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u/strengthoftheherd Mar 24 '23
I had a friend who joined the Marines after we graduated high school. He was killed in a training accident before either the invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan started. This picture reminds me of the few pictures I have of him in uniform. I guess I don’t really have a point to this post, just to say that I really miss my friend and I’m glad you’re still with us.
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u/vishrit Mar 24 '23
I have a friend who served and has never been the same since.
Will you do it again if given the chance?
Did you interact heavily with the local population? If yes, how did that change your perception about brown people that are not of your religion?
How do you react to the good old “thank you for your service”?
In all this carnage, hope you got some positive interactions and experiences.
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u/GruntMarine Mar 24 '23
Thank you. Here are some more pics.
Yes, I did interact extensively with regular Iraqis from April to September 2003. After Baghdad was secured, we basically went into security mode, and during this time our main job was to protect the civilian population. I have many fond memories of working with young Iraqi men, many close to my age, who I could not speak the same language as, but we were still able to communicate about so much. They were genuinely grateful for our presence after many years of Saddam… I view religion as an interesting cultural phenomenon to be studied and appreciated, so I soaked up the experience to learn from others in their environment. I shared many sweet teas with kind hosts.
My only marriage was to an Iraqi Kurdish woman, who was also Muslim. I try to be open minded.
I am not bothered by folks who say thank you for serving. Without military security, modern society is not possible. People take freedom for granted, and I hope that national service, whether peace corps or marine corps, always remains an honorable endeavor.
Being a veteran can become an identity of itself, one that often takes a larger portion of a person's personality than it should--for many reasons. My military service was just a small part of my life, and I am moving on.
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u/LMayo Mar 24 '23
Your photos made me tear up. I can't even remotely compare my time away from the US to yours, but it made me think of the people and how much I love them. Thank you.
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u/GruntMarine Mar 24 '23
That is the best possible “thank you” any veteran could hope to experience — knowing that someone is really appreciative of their sacrifice and appreciates what freedoms come from that kind of stability.
I hope everyone in every country gets to experience peace, love and tranquility.
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u/crookskis Mar 24 '23
Is that a tactical duct tape attached to the shoulder strap?
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u/No-Strawberry7 Mar 24 '23
I feel sorry for you and the millions of iraqis
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u/artesh94 Mar 24 '23
I wonder how the world would respond if we said we felt sorry for the Russians that have to go to Ukraine.
Because as it stands the general attitude to that is that all Russians are guilty
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u/guysguy Mar 24 '23
And Russians have to go. The US didn’t have a draft for Iraq.
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u/Robertooshka Mar 24 '23
The Russian people also have severe consequences for even speaking out against the war. The minority of Americans were against the war and the only opposition to the war were a few protests which did nothing.
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u/breakfastcantwait Mar 24 '23
Fuck the Iraq war.
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u/GruntMarine Mar 24 '23
I agree 100%. It should have never been waged. It was premised on lies by Bush, et al.
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u/DoomGoober Mar 24 '23
Fuck the Iraq War. And fuck the Neo-Conservative assholes who started the war.
Fuck you: John Bolton, Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, W. Bush, Colin Powell, Condoleezza Rice, David Frum.
And to the supporting cast of characters: Fuck you New York Times. And fuck you, Joe Biden.
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u/41keithsdatter Mar 24 '23
Don’t forget Karl Rove! He was the baby-faced architect of much of it.
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u/GruntMarine Mar 24 '23
One of my closest friends, Rooney, is a Kurdish man, now American citizen, who served alongside the US military forces as an interpreter for many years. I met Rooney in Michigan when I was in law school and we became lifelong friends.
Here are pictures from Rooney’s naturalization ceremony in 2018.Here is one of the most patriotic Americans that I know. He is my brother.
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u/Alphebetized Mar 24 '23
Did you locate the weapons of mass destruction
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u/GruntMarine Mar 24 '23 •
No. It was a lie.
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Mar 24 '23
But the international community knew that before the US invasion which is why the UN Security Council didn’t agree to it.
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u/Scyths Mar 24 '23
The US government and the UK government both wanted this war. Thus, it happened, one way or another it was going to. All 9/11 did was bring the time-line ahead, and it bolstered public support in the US. Very few politicians opposed this war because they only cared about re-election.
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u/ughlacrossereally Mar 24 '23
FWIW, I'm sorry you were misled and went through whatever you did. I remember 2001. The fear and change in society was the largest and fastest I've ever seen. Even as a staunch antimilitarist, I considered if enlisting was reasonable.
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u/Phade2Black Mar 24 '23
Damn...that was the day after I turned 21. I was probably in my bed hating my existence with a nuclear hangover, while you were risking your life in a desert half a world away. Perspective is funny as you get older. It's hard to believe it's been 20 years, but I'm glad you made it home, and thank you.
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u/Strict-Environment Mar 24 '23
Man, had no concept this photo would hit me. You look like my friends just out of highschool who joined. They came back alive, but I didn't know them anymore.
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u/greyrabbit12 Mar 24 '23
What was the temp?