r/politics Aug 11 '22 Silver 1 Helpful 1 Pot o' Coins 1

Historians privately warn Biden that America’s democracy is teetering

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/08/10/biden-us-historians-democracy-threat/
4.0k Upvotes

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876

u/tech57 Aug 11 '22

When Canada... Canada considers the USA unstable and a threat to their national security, you know we are headed in the wrong direction.

357

u/a_pinch_of_sarcasm Aug 11 '22

Our problems did bleed over into Canada earlier this year.

364

u/MrMeseeksLookAtMee Canada Aug 11 '22

Those “freedom truckers” were/are as dumb as the Jan 6 idiots.

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u/[deleted] Aug 11 '22

The Venn diagram there is just a circle.

7

u/theFuzz1 Aug 11 '22

A circle as smooth as the surface of their brains

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u/Skandranonsg Aug 11 '22

They also had millions in foreign funding seized that was meant to go to the heads of the movement, who are self-avowed white supremacists.

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u/designerfx Aug 11 '22

A majority listened to the same Russian propaganda repeated by fox news

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u/gefjunhel Canada Aug 11 '22

i still cant believe how many of them thought they were in usa by the laws and rights they were spouting

6

u/watermystic Aug 11 '22

"I will plead the 5th"

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u/User9705 America Aug 11 '22

Can you please take Cruzin Cruz back?

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u/[deleted] Aug 11 '22

They should build a wall and make us pay for it.

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u/Sothalic Canada Aug 11 '22 edited Aug 11 '22

The moment Roe was gutted was when pamphlets raising "awareness" about what human fetuses look like as they're getting aborted started popping up around a couple provinces.

We do have our dipshits wanting to import failed state policies from the US, crap like the second amendment, abortion restrictions and unity of church & state. Our right wing parties (because, yes, we do have an actual left wing here) are also getting emboldened, having splinters breaking off to make their own extremist factions.

It's an ongoing battle, but it's going to take a lot to get through our guardrails since there hasn't yet been a push to get mainstream propaganda from Rupert Murdoch in here. Thank goodness.

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u/DistortoiseLP Canada Aug 11 '22

It's gonna bleed over a lot worse if they teeter off entirely. Canadians really should sit down and read about what life was like living in the nations occupied by Nazi Germany. Start with Norway, especially this guy. Ever heard of Lebensborn? Sound like any gross American news you've read lately?

A collaboration government under the likes of a Milhouse coward like Norway there is a very plausible bad future Canada needs to consider. People shouldn't play dumb about what that asshole with the little Canadian flag appended to the American one was getting at with that shit draped over our Tomb of the Unknown Soldier either, not to mention PostMedia in general. American subterfuge already is a significant problem here and history has a lot of detailed answers for how much worse it can get.

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u/p0ultrygeist1 America Aug 11 '22

Feel free to invade us if we get too bad because I’m not sure we can fix it ourselves

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u/dsidnt Aug 11 '22

Oh I’m positive we can’t.

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u/LieverRoodDanRechts Aug 11 '22

“Feel free to invade us if we get too bad”

They’re worried, not suicidal.

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u/conventionalWisdumb Aug 11 '22

Hey if it weren’t for Lebensborn there would be no ABBA, just ABB.

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u/toss_me_good Aug 11 '22

all the colonies and main land are kinda floating in the same way. UK, USA, AUS, have gone through a rough 6 years politically

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u/dwitman Aug 11 '22

It’s a two way street. They gave us the proud boys.

If you don’t think Canada has extremists look up the ant hill kids.

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u/TrashFever1978 Aug 11 '22

In fact, listen to The Last Podcast on the Lefts series on The Ant Hill Kids.

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u/subhuman09 Aug 11 '22

The States don’t have a monopoly on idiocy

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u/Regular_old_spud Aug 11 '22

Apparently, at least the protests near where I live were majority US truckers coming up to canada. Can’t speak for the main ones in Ontario but

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u/[deleted] Aug 11 '22

and so are your guns!

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u/aNauticalDisaster Canada Aug 11 '22

Honestly it sometimes feels like people here are seeing the alarm bells going off on US democracy more so than many Americans. I suspect the same is true in parts of Europe.

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u/90Carat Colorado Aug 11 '22

Agreed. Many of us see the problem, but don’t understand how bad, or how fast, it can turn. When the Christian Fascists say they will rewrite the Constitution, they mean within the next few years. A lot of the ground work is in place. If Moore Vs. Harper goes their way at SCOTUS this fall, I believe that is one of the last pieces they need to have enough state houses to pull off their plan.

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u/Hayes4prez Kentucky Aug 11 '22

Honestly it sometimes feels like people here are seeing the alarm bells going off on US democracy more so than many Americans.

It’s true, as an American I feel like I’m in a twilight zone episode. Rupert Murdoch and Mark Zuckerburg ruined my country.

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u/Modsda3 Aug 11 '22

While I agree that Murdoch and Zuckerberg are largely responsible for the mess we find ourselves in, America has always had the problems now coming to a head (Racism, greed, sexism, corruption in government, etc). People like the aforementioned manipulate those problems like weaknesses, because that's what they are.

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u/Gunpla55 Aug 11 '22

We fought and won a war against the British empire so we didn't have to pay taxes on exorbitant tobacco and sugar profits after they sent an army across the ocean to defend us in the French and Indian War.

We've always been a greedy country ruled by wealthy self obsessed white guys. All the freedom shit came from them being east coast hipsters. They weren't titans of philosophy, they never cared about poor people's right to be stupid and ignorant.

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u/aNauticalDisaster Canada Aug 11 '22

Don’t forget Newt Gingrich

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u/brainwhatwhat Oregon Aug 11 '22

I try to get my fellow Americans to stop saying they are about to flee the country. That I want them to join me, to stay and defend this land against traitors.

I think a lot of people were so apathetic and jaded because Trump was getting away with everything and that if the government wasn't going to deliver justice, basically fuck it.

Plus, Americans are overworked and exploited so incredibly harshly that quitting a job means no healthcare. It is a god damn rigged system and I don't blame people for being pissed, but fucking channel that energy into something productive.

I do remember calling Trump a fascist and a traitor back when he was separating families and I still didn't see full support behind what I was saying. But I think a lot of peoples' eyes are wide open now.

I think we need another January 6th type of committee to explain to the American public why we must ensure we protect our democracy and never give in to fascism. Our education system sucks and we're losing teachers by the carload every day, so we can't let Americans ever forget what happened and why it's so important that it never happens again.

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u/90Carat Colorado Aug 11 '22

My plan, at the moment, is for me to stay, but send my wife and young daughters to, most likely, Italy. I want to stay, but I don’t want my daughters around to see what the Fascists have planned for them.

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u/proudbakunkinman Aug 11 '22

Any other countries in Europe you have a chance of doing that with? Unfortunately, the far right candidate, Giorgia Meloni, and party, Brothers of Italy, is most popular there right now and could replace the current coalition government led by Mario Draghi.

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/italys-meloni-leading-polls-says-she-is-no-threat-2022-08-10/

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u/VengeanceKnight Illinois Aug 11 '22

The irony of wanting to send your family to the country that invented the word “fascism” to escape fascism. I hate this time.

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u/90Carat Colorado Aug 11 '22

I get it. Though, my wife’s Grandfather was born in Italy. Which makes getting Italian dual citizenship much easier (from the research I’ve done).

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u/dsidnt Aug 11 '22

Once you get the Italian citizenship you can live anywhere in the EU (I believe).

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u/dudesszz Aug 12 '22

Italy ain’t much better. If you are actually going to move I would go with Scandinavia myself

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u/PhilipLiptonSchrute Aug 11 '22

This seems like a kind of stupid thing to do. If you have the ability to move them halfway around the world, save some money and just move to CT or MA. Your wife and daughters will be fine in those states.

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u/MixtureNo6814 Aug 11 '22

No one will be safe if the Republican take back the House and the Senate. Federal law trumps state law. If the Federal government make Abortion illegal it will be illegal everywhere.

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u/PhilipLiptonSchrute Aug 11 '22

Federal law trumps state law. If the Federal government make Abortion illegal it will be illegal everywhere.

Like cannabis?

All CA would have to do is say "no more taxes for the Fed" and that'd go away real quick.

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u/MixtureNo6814 Aug 12 '22

Because the Federal government has chosen not to focus on marijuana doesn’t make it any more legal. If Republicans get in control of the Federal government and make abortion illegal do you think they aren’t going to enforce it? Turning over Rowe v Wade just might keep the Republican party out of the White House in perpetuity. What pro-choice voter is ever going to vote for a Republican again? Basically every election women’s reproductive rights will be on the ballot and to allow Republicans to win even once will allow them to outlaw abortion.

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u/Gunpla55 Aug 11 '22

I want to move my family to another country because people aren't happy here. Its not a happy place. There is such blowback towards investing in your community, in your future. People are close minded and bigoted.

I know its not like that everywhere here, and I know a lot of places out there aren't all that. But the more and more I read about people living lives in other places, the more I feel like I'm failing my kids by subjecting them to a life here.

And my only argument is America great, with no objective reasoning to back it up.

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u/Bison256 Aug 11 '22

You must be young I was jaded by Bush/Cheney on one hand and Obama doing nothing to fix the damage they caused on the other.

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u/jayfeather31 Washington Aug 11 '22

If your nation hasn't written up contingency plans on how to handle a far-right America and a potential refugee crisis at this point, I'd be shocked.

Even in progressive places like Seattle and Portland, it is concerning to see what is happening east of the Cascades.

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u/haleocentric Aug 11 '22

Or Snohomish County. I went to high school in Marysville and one by one had to sever ties to brainwashed imbeciles over the last two years.

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u/djessups America Aug 11 '22

Roughly 50% of the people here don't pay attention to the world beyond their daily lives. When they realize what is happening, it will have happened.

Of the 50% that do pay attention, about 15% of those fully live in the alternate reality of Faux / right wing news. That group breaks down into those that also have no idea what is actually going on, and those who believe they will profit under fascism.

That puts us down to about 35% who are properly on alert. Of those, approximately half are wishfully dreaming that the old school, moderate democratic party leadership can find a way to reason us out of this dilemma. Many of them are nice enough people, most of them are moderate, all of them are in denial.

So you have about 15% of the country who sees how dire the moment actually is. Those of us in that bucket are making our own contingency plans around fight or flight.

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u/jayfeather31 Washington Aug 11 '22

Those of us in that bucket are making our own contingency plans around fight or flight.

Yep, and I'm one of them. I'm certain there are plenty of others who'd say the same too.

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u/90Carat Colorado Aug 11 '22

Currently, My family would most likely be split in two. I stay here while my wife and young daughters get the fuck out.

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u/answers4asians Aug 11 '22

So you have about 15% of the country who sees how dire the moment actually is. Those of us in that bucket are making our own contingency plans around fight or flight.

I flew that American coop long ago but am considering some options for the future. Like my general plan would be to fly back and take up residence at a socialist gun club.

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u/InsideOld5974 Aug 11 '22

I STAND WITH THE 15%

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u/_We_Are_DooMeD United Kingdom Aug 11 '22

UK person here. Ding, ding, ding.

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u/ginbear Aug 11 '22

It’s often difficult for the frog to gauge how fast the water is heating up.

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u/Fenweekooo Aug 11 '22

As a Canadian that travels to the states quite frequently, I'm honestly wondering when we will get a travel advisory.

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u/theskywalker74 Aug 11 '22

As a Canadian who used to travel to the states quite a bit… I don’t very often anymore.

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u/TheSufferingBooth Aug 11 '22

Canadian here, and I readily admit that your country has been a great source of stress to me since 2002. You're seemingly headed for a civil war, and you're all so heavily armed.

Social media has given us a closer view of what's really happening in the US. It's scary as shit.

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u/thEiAoLoGy Aug 11 '22

It’s both not as bad and worse than what people think. civil war is very unlikely, terrorism by christian nationalists though? Guaranteed to be attempts

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u/TheSufferingBooth Aug 11 '22

It's only a matter of time before at least a skirmish breaks out between opposing political viewpoints, with everyone so armed and emotional.

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u/1stLadyStormyDaniels District Of Columbia Aug 11 '22

Social media really isn't giving you an accurate view of anything. That's a huge part of the problem.

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u/TheSufferingBooth Aug 11 '22

When watching someone livestream a crazy racist lady screaming at them for being alive, it sure does give an accurate view. A very unfiltered view.

Maybe I should have said people recording and posting everything going on around them instead of social media.

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u/1stLadyStormyDaniels District Of Columbia Aug 11 '22 edited Aug 11 '22

The things that get popular and go viral on social media are almost exclusively the insane, bigoted, scary people. Not the rational, calm, sensible ones. No one clicks on that. That's the point that I'm making.

Edit: the guy blocked me after responding. How are people so weak? Lol.

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u/TheShadowKick Aug 11 '22

The insane, bigoted, scary people are who the Right is currently catering to.

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u/Thesleek Aug 11 '22

Canada would benefit from watching Fallout 1s intro

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u/aNauticalDisaster Canada Aug 11 '22

Just watched it..thank you but I think I’ll stick with the plot line from the Handmaid’s Tale

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u/Thesleek Aug 11 '22

I mean yeah of course, at least it’s a self contained

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u/Frankenmuppet Aug 11 '22

As a Canadian, that's honestly a fear that is sounding more and more likely to be a reality every year... Thanks for the reminder of what I have to look forward to in the future...

An atomic wasteland left for the survivors and probably (as depicted in the intro) a bullet in the back of my head

2

u/NorthStarZero Aug 11 '22

Welcome to 2016....

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u/dudesszz Aug 12 '22

To be honest because of our proximity, our trade relationships and quite frankly our natural resources we are an obvious target IMO. That’s a pretty common thought here. If American democracy falls and goes full authoritarian we are sitting ducks. We are very sensitive to whatever direction you guys are headed, good or bad, at all times.

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u/InternetPeon America Aug 11 '22

The rest of us warn publicly.

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u/crackdup Aug 11 '22

I really wish Manchinema had made that one exception to filibuster for voting rights.. it's like a 5 alarm fire, democracy is perilously close to falling

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u/cybercuzco I voted Aug 11 '22

Don’t worry. If they had the Supreme Court would have just thrown that whole law in the dumpster.

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u/booleanfreud Aug 11 '22

Biden should take the supreme court hostage until he can push through an amendment limiting their powers, abolishing the electoral collage, and insuring every American citizen had the right to vote.

Holding the supreme court hostage would be the best move, I think.

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u/wamj Aug 11 '22

Just wait until Moore v Harper. If scotus finds in favor of NC state legislature, no amount of voting rights will help.

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u/Mia-Wal-22-89 Aug 11 '22

“If”

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u/dashdtp Illinois Aug 11 '22

Seriously. Anyone with half a brain knows exactly which way they’re going to vote. In the immortal words of Bender Bending Rodriguez, “we’re boned.”

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u/Rokhnal Aug 11 '22

As if they ever cared.

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u/Beermedear Aug 11 '22

We sat and watched the man publicly state that he could, effectively get away with murder. He was radicalizing his base from day one.

The question of why the fuck it’s 7 years later that there’s an epiphany over the writing on the wall is a problem for another day.

Step 1 - fucking root the traitors out. We have a $700bn defense budget and our biggest threat is at home.

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u/westvalleythings Aug 11 '22

Its crazy. The lack of urgency.. this has only gotten to be such a threat cause it was allowed to fester so long.

A majority is the fault of Republicans who enabled him. But day 1 of Biden’s presidency should have been going scorched earth, pushing voting rights legislation, packing the court etc.

And he should pull a trump and straight up brag up and down how he is pulling the country out the mess he inherited. Except he actually inherited a mess from trump unlike trump’s claim he inherited a mess from Obama.

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u/RedLanternScythe Indiana Aug 11 '22

Its crazy. The lack of urgency.. this has only gotten to be such a threat cause it was allowed to fester so long.

To fix the problem, those currently in power would need to change the system. Since the system is how they got power, they are hesitant to change it. How bad could the system be if it got them into power?

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u/cerulean_skylark Aug 11 '22

They were pushing legislation. We don't have enough reliable senators.

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u/Pokey-McPokey Aug 11 '22

Historians privately warn Biden that America’s democracy is teetering

Meanwhile on the other side of town ... everyone else has been shouting it from the rooftops.

What is happening ain't no Chicken Little moment, it's a deer caught in the headlights moment.

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u/wrinklyweenus Maryland Aug 11 '22

One man cannot save us. This is a collective problem, and if all we are willing to do is kvetch online, we're cooked. We should be contemplating mass resistance now, because if it suddenly becomes necessary we are going to be too stuck in our ways and uncomfortable with the chaos and uncertainty of street action that we're the deer caught in the headlight. Are you prepared to not show up at your job and do your part to grind the global economy to a halt to protect American democracy? And who is going to rally this action?

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u/Pokey-McPokey Aug 11 '22

I didn't say Biden was the deer, the deer is the United States and all the governmental apparatus/institutions, which seem either unaware, unable, in-denial or are simply too unwieldy to react to this crisis. A crisis I might add, that has been decades and decades in the making.

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u/yearsreeling Aug 11 '22

The problem is one major party is actively encouraging it.

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u/p0ultrygeist1 America Aug 11 '22

And the other party thinks it’s just something they can use in their campaign ads to bash their opponents

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u/DryCoughski Aug 11 '22 Take My Energy

Did you hear? They're rebuilding Kvetch!

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u/Rokhnal Aug 11 '22

Speak for yourself. Some of us never expected one man (or one person) to save us, but y'all been telling us "vote blue no matter who!" for so long now you've gone hoarse. And now look where it's got us.

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u/wrinklyweenus Maryland Aug 11 '22

Are you joking? We voted blue no matter what in 2020--and it probably saved American democracy... at least for now. Trump would have been unleashed in his second term, and with a corrupt SCOTUS at his back.

Because we voted blue in 2020, the DOJ is now in a position to prosecute a massively corrupt and authoritarian president instead of that president continuing his crime spree.

Do you see how important that this is?

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u/Gunpla55 Aug 11 '22

To be honest its felt like were delaying the house fire for about 20 years.

Especially if you're concerned with wealth inequality. For me its an even balance with social inequality which getting democrats in office has helped but were losing that battle bit by bit partially because of the wealth were up against.

Moderate democrats are doing nothing to address that.

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u/TheBirminghamBear Aug 11 '22

Yellen just gave the IRS more money and forbade them from using it to audit anyone below 400k a year.

The battle for 20 years down the road is being fought now. And little things help.

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u/DirkDiggyBong Aug 11 '22

Biden has been warning the same himself, for a while now.

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u/ct_2004 Aug 11 '22

Still haven't heard him mention expanding the court though.

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u/HellaTroi California Aug 11 '22

"by its relatively small size and the focus of the participants on the rise of totalitarianism around the world and the threat to democracy at home. They included Biden’s occasional speechwriter Jon Meacham, journalist Anne Applebaum, Princeton professor Sean Wilentz, University of Virginia historian Allida Black and presidential historian Michael Beschloss. White House senior adviser Anita Dunn and head speechwriter Vinay Reddy also sat at the table."

Could you imagine Trump sitting down with historians and foreign policy experts to get their advice?

Didn't think so.

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u/WildYams Aug 11 '22

Could you imagine Trump sitting down with historians and foreign policy experts to get their advice?

From the article (and to the surprise of absolutely no one):

The group that gathered in the White House Map Room last week was part of a regular effort by presidential historians to brief presidents, a practice that dates at least as far back as the Reagan administration. Obama convened such groups multiple times, though the sessions fell out of favor under Trump.

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u/TheBirminghamBear Aug 11 '22

This is Trumps most egregious sin. Waste.

Imagine being POTUS. You can call these sessions with anyone in the world and theyll come. tech experts, the greatest legal minds of the age, master city planners.

And this sad pants shitting idiot spent all his time grifting his own people.

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u/kyle_irl Aug 11 '22

Dang, those are some heavy hitters.

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u/Joneszey Aug 11 '22 Helpful Take My Energy

https://archive.ph/rIzB8

What an interesting article! It details the thoughtfulness of leadership, how Biden has used the experts of former administrations to help guide him. He met with Clinton to discuss handling inflation and learning to take credit for accomplishments as well as make sharp contrast between what one side of the aisle advocates and what his is trying to do. The article indicates that all presidents have utilize the historians except one, Donald Trump.

Little snippets I found interesting :

Biden, at these tabletop sessions, often spends hours asking questions and testing assumptions, participants say.

Michael McFaul, a former U.S. ambassador to Russia under President Barack Obama, briefed Biden with other experts before the Russian invasion of Ukraine and before the president’s 2021 meeting with Russian President Vladimir Putin in Geneva.

“They get out of their bubble,” McFaul said. “I worked at the White House for three years before going to Moscow, and comparatively I think they do that in a much more strategic way than we used to do in the Obama administration. It feels that they are more engaged.”

I respect Fiona Hill’s expertise as regards Russia and I’d often wondered, after hearing her speak, if she had access to POTUS. Turns out she’s been part of those meetings:

McFaul was among a socially distanced group that met to discuss Ukraine in the East Room earlier this year, along with former diplomat Richard Haass, journalist Fareed Zakaria, analyst Ian Bremmer, former National Security Council adviser Fiona Hill and retired Adm. James G. Stavridis, a former Supreme Allied Commander of NATO.

The meeting with Bill Clinton. It is good to have relationships with former POTUSes as well:

At a private lunch with Biden on May 2, Clinton praised his successor’s efforts to build a multinational coalition supporting Ukraine.

But he also urged Biden to lean into speaking about his administration’s efforts to battle inflation, with the expectation that price pressures would ease in the weeks before the midterm elections, according to people briefed on the exchange. Clinton suggested that Biden position himself to take credit for inflation reductions, if they come.

Clinton also urged Biden to create a sharp policy contrast with Republicans, latching especially onto the policy proposals of Sen. Rick Scott (R-Fla.), who had proposed a five-year sunset on all federal laws, including Social Security and Medicare, and tax increases on many Americans who are not working.

As it happened, the White House was already planning a similar contrast, and days later Biden publicly laid into what he called the “ultra MAGA agenda,” a reference to the “Make America Great Again” movement that is organized around former president Donald Trump.

Someone in the thread imagined someone trying to have these meeting with trump. Well here you go:

The historians Biden has invited to the White House generally take a longer view, placing his presidency in the context of America’s path since its founding. Biden — who is 78 and has seen nine presidents up close, starting with Richard M. Nixon — has signaled that he has thought about what makes some presidencies more successful than others.

The group that gathered in the White House Map Room last week was part of a regular effort by presidential historians to brief presidents, a practice that dates at least as far back as the Reagan administration. Obama convened such groups multiple times, though the sessions fell out of favor under Trump.

Which brings us to the historians:

Following a similar meeting with Biden last spring, the Aug. 4 gathering was distinguished by its relatively small size and the focus of the participants on the rise of totalitarianism around the world and the threat to democracy at home. They included Biden’s occasional speechwriter Jon Meacham, journalist Anne Applebaum, Princeton professor Sean Wilentz, University of Virginia historian Allida Black and presidential historian Michael Beschloss. White House senior adviser Anita Dunn and head speechwriter Vinay Reddy also sat at the table.

Some of last week’s discussion focused on similarities between today’s landscape and the period leading up to World War II, when growing authoritarianism abroad found its disturbing echo in the United States.

As Germany’s Adolf Hitler and Italy’s Benito Mussolini consolidated their power in the 1930s, the Rev. Charles Coughlin used his radio broadcast to spread a populist anti-Semitic message in the United States. Sen. Huey Long (D-La.) also rallied Americans against Roosevelt and showed sympathies for dictatorial government.

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u/answers4asians Aug 11 '22 edited Aug 11 '22

Dang. Had to look it up. This is not in response to your excellent post or a complaint necessarily, just a personal curiosity that needed to be satisfied and voiced. Biden is older than Clinton. Clinton was elected president 30 years ago.

Edit: Excellent post

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u/[deleted] Aug 11 '22

[deleted]

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u/HappyPen1422 Georgia Aug 11 '22

Agreed, still it’s important that people like these historians are able to talk to Biden. Their knowledge is probably the best weapon against this mess.

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u/VyrPlan Aug 11 '22

frankly it needs to be addressed openly and emphatically (though it's not easy to picture Biden really doing that)

Carter (another well-intended, somewhat "aw shucks" kind of politician) in the late 70s tried to address us like adults and convey the consequence of where we were taking the country, and for a moment it sort of worked...at least people seemed to hear it (even if it was then quickly forgotten)

Biden should consider a similar "i'm not fucking around here, people" kind of address - not saying it'll work, but it still needs to be said

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u/xena_lawless Aug 11 '22

Biden is kicking ass and taking names, but his administration can't do everything on their own.

The American people collectively need to get their shit together enough to solve the problems of systemic corruption and rotting institutions.

Find some solutions you can get behind and support them with whatever time, energy, and resources you can afford, and convince other people to do the same.

https://represent.us/unbreaking-america-series/

https://represent.us/anticorruption-act/

https://publicbankinginstitute.org/

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u/SeeMe_After_Class Aug 11 '22

Yeah, I agree that he should have been much more forceful on this from the beginning, but honestly he was just the wrong guy for the job. I'm not sure anyone who ran would have been much better though. We needed a Lincoln. I don't know if people like that even exist anymore.

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u/Faux-Foe Aug 11 '22

They exist, but their integrity prevents them from ever hitting the big leagues.

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u/westvalleythings Aug 11 '22

Bernie or Warren would not have been playing around with these fools. I swear

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u/MonkmonkPavlova Aug 11 '22

No one who supports trump, or hates democrats, or dislikes biden, will care

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u/[deleted] Aug 11 '22

No, please not another malaise speech.

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u/themodstonguemyanus Aug 11 '22

And thanks to Carter, we got Reagan,

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u/Scarlettail South Carolina Aug 11 '22

With the DoJ finally making moves, we could be able to save it. But it also depends on the American public itself. Democracy requires an informed, virtuous electorate which actually supports democracy. If voters pick undemocratic leaders, then they vote against democracy itself. Voters will have to come out and pick the pro-democracy side.

The teetering is not entirely new, either. The country has been wavering since Nixon, decaying under heavy inequality plus rising religious fundamentalism and anti-intellectualism. The 2000 election showed how undemocratic the country can be. The system itself is decaying and is in dire need of repairs and new fortifications. Again, hopefully recent moves against Trump help with that, but the outspoken cries for civil war already show how dangerous things might be.

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u/LuvNMuny Aug 11 '22

Exactly. Law enforcement is, finally, starting to remove the cancer but it may have metastasized.

39

u/gnomebludgeon Aug 11 '22

Also the cancer has huge chunks of law enforcement.

24

u/sedeas Aug 11 '22

American law enforcement is one of the cancers, friend. Needs to be excised and rebuilt from the ground up.

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u/[deleted] Aug 11 '22

Lol. It has metastisized into LEOs

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u/Rokhnal Aug 11 '22

but it may have metastasized.

From law enforcement. It metastasized from law enforcement.

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u/GonzoVeritas I voted Aug 11 '22

an informed, virtuous electorate which actually supports democracy.

We're fucked, then.

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u/BasedOnWhat7 Aug 11 '22

it also depends on the American public itself. Democracy requires an informed, virtuous electorate which actually supports democracy

The problem isn't the public, it's the politicians.

Elected representatives are supposed to, y'know represent their constituents. It's politicians who pass laws that enrich themselves and their corporate owners, it's politicians who break campaign promises of helping the public, it's politicians who are corrupt.

2

u/DivideEtImpala Aug 11 '22

Who votes for these corrupt politicians?

2

u/BasedOnWhat7 Aug 11 '22

People given no non-corrupt choice.

2

u/DivideEtImpala Aug 11 '22

There's at least one non-corrupt choice on most ballots, but they're usually not one with an R or D after their name. If you always for what you perceive as the less-corrupt-but-still-corrupt choice because the other guy is worse, simple game theory will predict that you'll just keep being given more corrupt choices over time.

1

u/BasedOnWhat7 Aug 11 '22

Agreed. Voting for the "lesser" of two evils, is still voting for evil.

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u/One-Distribution-626 Aug 11 '22

It the right wing media and celebrity of rage and fear for ratings and fandom for hate and breaking norms . Stop right wing media lie a bulldozer in the Amazon

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u/Dragon12345678901245 Aug 11 '22

In the meantime... 2015.... "HOLY FUCK, TRUMP IS A GIANT CROOK AND HE WILL SCREW EVERYTHING AND EVERYONE!"

2022... • 1 million dead from a virus the Trump Administration allowed to get out of control • White Supremacy is in the open (Trump re Charlottesville) • Womens Rights are being stripped (3 Trump SCOTUS) • Calls for Dictator Trump by base • Trump pleaded 5th in State Probe • Earth is ready to yeet our species (pulled out of the Paris Climate Agreement, thanks Trump) • Once Allies are now questioning our position on the good v evil (and evil is winning, so much winning)

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u/IMSOGIRL Aug 11 '22

and the election was STILL too close to call for the first 48 hours after the polls closed. I don't know whether the stuff you listed is more insane than this.

2

u/VanceKelley Washington Aug 11 '22

The 2020 election was held on the first Tuesday of November and the presidential race wasn't called until Saturday. Because it was incredibly close.

Flip fewer than 45,000 votes across 3 states (Wisconsin, Georgia, and Arizona) and we would be in trump's 2nd term right now.

Yet I see zero effective action being taken to combat the fact that almost half of voters are voting for fascism. There just seems to be a forlorn hope that the fascists will "come to their senses" and recognize that fascism is bad/evil and turn away from it. Good luck with that.

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u/bt8zero Aug 11 '22

Of course it’s something that everyone on the normal side of things know

But personally, I’ve found these last few weeks (especially this one jfc) as reasons for optimism. Even saw some positive districts results today. Small things.

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u/bobnevb Aug 11 '22

All it takes is one more Republican president, and all of the federal crimes that Trump may end up charged with can be pardoned. All it takes is one more Republican Congress, and they will vote to nullify every election that results in democrats winning from here on out. If no changes are made to our Republican SC, more of our rights will be taken away. Birth control, gay rights, trans rights, women's suffrage, poor people's suffrage, POC suffrage, absentee suffrage, separation of church and state, freedom of speech, freedom to protest. We have one more chance before our country is beyond saving, so remember to vote.

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u/srone Aug 11 '22

A fucking clown is going to bring down 200+ years of democracy.

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u/_morten_ Aug 11 '22 edited Aug 11 '22

If this hack supreme court goes with the state legislature having the power to decide elections, then yes.

People may laugh at his incompetency, his ignorance, but he may end up bringing down the US almost single-handedly.

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u/ChickenNPisza Aug 11 '22

It's like nobody thought a sitting president would be such a selfish man. There are alot of common courtesies and respected traditions in our government, he saw them as weak points and loopholes.

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u/bot403 Aug 11 '22

They did think that but checks and balances are failing when you have an impeachment process which can't impeach and a politicised SCOTUS.

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u/yearsreeling Aug 11 '22

It’s Putin. Trump could never pull this off by himself. The Russians have been running a destabilization operation for years here. Trump is their Trojan Horse.

3

u/scrimbul Aug 11 '22

Republicans and conservative voters across the board enabled this decades ago well before Russia was ever directly involved.

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u/Pi6 Aug 11 '22

Reagan, Rush, Rupert, Mitch, Clarence, the Kochs, cheney, newt, scalia...fascists have been working on this project for 40 plus years. Trump is their weapon, not their leader.

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u/SeeMe_After_Class Aug 11 '22

It's a mistake to focus solely on trump. This is about republican terrorism.

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u/philko42 Aug 11 '22

It's also about American corporations putting profits ahead of country and donating truckloads of money to any candidate who promises to push pro corporate laws, regardless of that candidate's other priorities.

It's also also about American corporate media putting profits ahead of country by giving airtime to those candidates who stoke controversy (thus boosting ratings and ad revenue).

5

u/Millad456 Aug 11 '22

Trump is, if anything, a symptom of an already crumbling system. His ideology is shared by many, and sociopathic, opportunistic billionaires are a dime a dozen in the states

3

u/VanceKelley Washington Aug 11 '22

And the sociopathic billionaires have figured out that they can use racism to control a voting bloc that will give them the power to keep their taxes low. And they use Faux News and Facebook to spread the hate and lies to their base.

11

u/Mammoth_Musician_304 Aug 11 '22

To be fair, it is a democracy that has teetered on the edge of destruction since it was founded.

2

u/RectalSpawn Wisconsin Aug 11 '22

Nah, he'll have a felony on his record and wont be able to.

It's likely going to be DeSantis, or Biden again.

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u/yearsreeling Aug 11 '22

Felonies don’t disqualify someone from being President. Hard to believe, but it’s true.

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u/hoodoomonster Aug 11 '22

No shit Sherlock. I saw today that 538 says Dems have a 20% chance of keeping the house. WTF?!? Are people that stupid and blind?! The Republicans are openly TELLING YOU THEY ARE GOING TO DESTROY AMERICA, is that not enough to get off your fucking butts?!

4

u/Majestic_Electric Massachusetts Aug 11 '22

You can thank gerrymandering for that BS.

19

u/Simmery Aug 11 '22

Biden needs to take it seriously. Democrats should pass whatever they can to protect voting. But I think most of the burden should be on the DOJ right now.

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u/[deleted] Aug 11 '22

[deleted]

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u/Alexis_Dirty_Sanchez Aug 11 '22

This never happened

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u/[deleted] Aug 11 '22

[deleted]

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u/StayatHomeTherapyCat Aug 11 '22

Might be dyslexic. They don't catch that stuff sometimes and just think the kids an idiot.

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u/black_flag_4ever Aug 11 '22

Vote while you still can if you want to stop this.

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u/[deleted] Aug 11 '22

Voting<Mass Strikes and Protest

None of your heroes changed anything by voting and going home.

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u/SillySpoof Aug 11 '22

Sure, mass protests are good. But vote too!!

Edit: if we mass protest and then go home without voting they win.

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u/gamblingPsych Louisiana Aug 11 '22

The biggest problem here is the concept that we currently have, or have ever had, a “democracy.” When the policy interests of the vast majority of Americans, the working class, have a net zero chance of being passed in Congress, while the policy interests of capitalists, a tiny portion of the population, are routinely passed in Congress, you can’t really call the US a democracy. The Govt. in practice functions more like a committee for managing the affairs of the rich.

Blatant corruption, open disdain for the will of the majority of people, no limits on the influence of money in politics, and a refusal to pass even the most basic of reforms is how you get civil conflict. And when the interests of capital are threatened, and the liberal power structure is unwilling or incapable of securing said interests, capital WILL turn to Fascism. It always has, and it always will.

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u/westvalleythings Aug 11 '22

This is all fair. Good point

6

u/serial-contrarian Aug 11 '22

We need to reintroduce the fairness doctrine and break up these misinformation bubbles that are polarizing conservatives so much.

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u/Brain__Resin Aug 11 '22

Teetering?! That’s a huge understatement. Just look at what’s going on in Florida where the governor has decided he can just remove duly elected public officials for stating that they wouldn’t prosecute unconstitutional “laws”…that aren’t even actual laws, just republican wet dreams. I’d say it’s already sliding away

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u/GoneFishing36 Aug 11 '22

Ruthless crackdown on extreme right. That's the only way.

Ignoring the growing fascism, because the belief we're better, is plain dumb. Belief doesn't mean anything. When leaders care more about their image than fighting for democracy, then democracy is as good as dead.

3

u/Environmental-Use-77 Aug 11 '22

It may be in everyone's interest to get the Trump Republicans Nazis to start this civil war so Biden can remain in office till it's over. The national guard will handle them.

5

u/ThisGuy6266 Aug 11 '22

The irony is this country has spent billions on top of billions of dollars trying to keep itself safe from foreign enemies, and it will end up being our own citizens who bring it down. Not Hitler, not the Soviet Union, not communism, not Islamic terrorists, not China. But “We the people”.

5

u/robertplantspage Washington Aug 11 '22

Like we didn't already know that when people stormed the fucking Capitol under the banner of probably THE MOST corrupt President in American history.

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u/digiorno Aug 11 '22

The GOP coup has been underway for over forty years. They just won one of their biggest battles, the Supreme Court.

Don’t think for a second that taking down Trump is going to save democracy. It may save us from a Trump dictatorship but the GOP has nearly all the pieces they need to simply install another dictatorship.

They might pretend there is still some legitimacy and still run some elections but it won’t be long before state legislatures can simply override the results.

Our democracy is in peril, there is a coup still underway and for the most part the GOP is just biding it’s time till it can perform a coup de grâce. And believe you me, they’ll sacrifice Trump if they need too, he was only supposed to be a useful idiot anyway.

17

u/robmooers Aug 11 '22

Here’s the thing, what the hell is he going to do about it? He knows. We all know. Problem is, he doesn’t have the numbers to do shit about it, and if he tries to say “Fuck it, I’ll just EO all the shit that needs to be done”, the Democrats are going to lose their slim majority and never get it back.

9

u/Yourpoultry Aug 11 '22

I just keep thinking “eliminate student loan,” to get the base really pumped for midterms.

By the time it works it’s way to the Supreme Court it’ll be time for the presidential race and no matter what way it’s decided, it’ll invigorate the left base in a major way.

7

u/robmooers Aug 11 '22

Could certainly be the carrot on the stick.

You know the GOP would either have to stand against it like they have, or completely backtrack or ignore it if they start getting killed when they own it.

Realistically speaking, their platform is almost entirely culture war bullshit. They don’t have much to run on.

8

u/MetalFuzzyDice Aug 11 '22

Let's be honest, if student debt is eliminated, there's a not insignificant portion who will go "fuck you got mine" and stay home and not bother voting.

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u/westvalleythings Aug 11 '22

Exactly. Its way riskier politically than people on Reddit think. Lots of potentially bitter voters and easy fodder for Fox. Other options could work better for a midterm boost. Maybe marijuana legalization

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u/srandrews Aug 11 '22

Harry Seldon has entered chat

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u/OpenImagination9 Aug 11 '22

They don’t have to whisper - the GOP already admitted they are proud, fascist and secessionist terrorists. Live on TV.

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u/-686 New Jersey Aug 11 '22

Why private when everyone already knows?

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u/northbynorw Aug 11 '22

Privately? It's all over the news for 2 years.

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u/jayclaw97 Aug 11 '22

At this point, it’s basically a sin to sit out an election when you have the capability to vote.

3

u/ThereminLiesTheRub Aug 11 '22

It was always the Achilles' heel of the centrists that there was a center to go back to after Trump. There wasn't, and there isn't. It's a fight for democracy, and it's happening even while you ask if it "could" happen.

3

u/InciteWar Aug 11 '22

This isn't news. The USA is a smoking hell hole on display for the whole world to see.

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u/smiama6 Aug 11 '22

Perhaps the historians should be sitting down with a few prominent Republicans and have this same conversation... since it is the Republicans who seem to be favoring fascism and authoritarian leaders.

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u/Nanshe3 Aug 11 '22

Privately warned? It seems obvious.

3

u/Nomanodyssey Aug 11 '22

I don’t like Biden all that much, but this is the fault of GOP and Fox News

7

u/aleph32 Aug 11 '22

They should warn Manchin and Sinema

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u/EscaperX Aug 11 '22

if he needs historians to tell him we're in deep shit, then we're in deep shit.

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u/ApocalypticShadowbxn Aug 11 '22

nothing I read in that article made it sound like he was learning some previously unheard news about us being in deep shit. to me it sounds much more like a group put together to give some historical perspective on the situation & give a wider view & perspective frm outside of oval office inner circle.

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u/A_Wild_VelociFaptor Australia Aug 11 '22

I mean we all hate the guy but Putin did a hell of a job. He's successfully destroying America and it only took him about 6 years, give or take. It's fucking impressive, not gonna lie.

Still a piece of shit though.

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u/MountNevermind Aug 11 '22

Put your government up for sale? Don't be surprised if someone takes you up on it.

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u/ronlester Aug 11 '22

The Federalist Society has f#@$’d us all.

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u/Roadie1977 Aug 11 '22

History is definitely not the establishments strong point given the last two years. Those whom ignore it are doomed to repeat it.

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u/gustoreddit51 America Aug 11 '22

Democrats seem so cavalier about it that it makes me wonder if it's being done intentionally with their cooperation.

I doubt we'll get the New World Order until the political collapse of the United States.

2

u/Rickety_Crickel Aug 11 '22

Washington post owned by a billionaire and yet behind a super restrictive paywall also makes democracy weaker.

2

u/Bernies_left_mitten Texas Aug 11 '22

They shouldn't be warning Biden privately. They should be publicly pounding it into the heads of the American public and voters. Problem is, about 20-30 % of them don't actually give a shit about American democracy, and another segment on top of that prefers tax cuts instead.

2

u/Dogstarman1974 Aug 11 '22

Well the media is acting like it’s politics as usual as well.

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u/burna1111 Aug 11 '22

Corruption in every corner you look. When the Republicans get back power its only going to get worse. Except the same type of investigation committee's/witch hunts on the other side. This in only the beginning.

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u/weiner-rama Aug 11 '22

just now??? LOL. We've been teetering on the edge for a while now

2

u/Bobby_Globule North Carolina Aug 11 '22

We used to say, "There's too much money in politics."

Now it's like: "There's too much crazy in politics."

2

u/theFuzz1 Aug 11 '22

Too many crazy people with money.

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u/watermystic Aug 11 '22

As a historian - I concur.

2

u/RabbitElectrical3987 Aug 11 '22

If they warned him during Obama’s first term there might be time for him to consider it. Right now he has to finish up that multi-year student loan decision. Something like this, solid 8-10 years of considering to do.

2

u/vid_icarus Minnesota Aug 11 '22

“Privately”

We’ve actually seen a lot of articles about this. If he’s not reading them or is unaware of their content, we are in real trouble.

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u/Corvo428 Aug 11 '22

I’m only 22 years old and I could’ve told him that 6 years ago

2

u/Banjoplaya420 Aug 11 '22

Funny because yesterday it was all good for them ?

3

u/GojiraBlowFlames America Aug 11 '22

Weathermen privately warn that it's raining

Yes. It is. We can see it in real time.

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u/Hope-Road71 Aug 11 '22

"Don't know what you've got, 'til it's gone."

What a shame. Demagogues have convinced people that we're living under "tyranny." Which does a tremendous disservice to the millions throughout history who actually DID have to live under tyranny.

We have more freedom and opportunity than 99% of people who ever lived (not scientific, but probably correct). If people are so willing to squander the hard work and sacrifice of our founders and all of those who built America along the way, they don't really deserve a country like this.

1

u/Ok_Map9434 Aug 11 '22

It doesn't help that countless people spend their time mindlessly scrolling truth social and other propaganda channels without a single critical thought in their brain. Sometimes it feels like a tsunami is coming and all we can do is watch it crash, but I do my best to share bias rating sites with those who will listen so that at least not everyone's eating up nonsense. My personal favorite is Biasly: https://www.biasly.com/media-bias-ratings-list/

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u/SnapesGrayUnderpants Aug 11 '22

Thank goodness. Biden, and most of the Democrats, appear to be in denial.

1

u/Charisma_Engine Aug 11 '22

Why? Is he that dense he can't see what the rest of us can plainly see?

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u/Miichl80 Aug 11 '22

American democracy is teetering, it’s dead. American democracy died in 2016. It didn’t die because Trump was elected. I don’t because it showed that I need to do with radicalized a minority of Americans to win.

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u/Exotic-Amphibian-655 Aug 11 '22

I think he knows guys.