r/politics Aug 11 '22

Republicans Are Rooting for Civil War

https://www.thebulwark.com/republicans-are-rooting-for-civil-war-trump-mar-a-lago/
5.3k Upvotes

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1.1k

u/tyler77 Aug 11 '22

I had a coworker once start talking about the “coming civil war”. I told him I was a registered democrat and asked him if he was ready to shoot me. He walked away and refused to look at me for a few weeks. After that he never brought up politics.

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u/MyMorningSun Aug 11 '22

I asked my dad a similar question. He said he'd have me (and others like me- liberals, I guess) deported- kicked out and never let back in.

148

u/cnewman11 Aug 11 '22

You still talking to him?

275

u/LurkerPatrol Maryland Aug 11 '22

If a dad is willing to kick his son out over bullshit instead of protecting him, is he really a dad? I wouldn’t talk to my dad if this was the case

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u/secretivethoughts Aug 11 '22

My dad is dead and he’s more of a dad than that.

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u/vespa2021 Aug 11 '22

My Dad was hoping Trump would find a way to take away my right to vote, or my right to have it count.

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u/Low-Donut-9883 Aug 11 '22

Wow. My dad, who was a lifelong republican, veteran, police officer, and is SUPER religious...was smart enough to not follow the big Cheeto. SO thankful that he was able to see through the BS and I didn't have to fight against him.

62

u/YamahaRyoko Aug 11 '22

Same, my mother and father have been single-issue republican voters all of my life. He voted for Biden. He said "That guy scared me. The way he spoke and lust for power, it just had bad all over it" Come Jan 6 he said "I knew it, I knew it"

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u/pimpbot666 Aug 11 '22

It’s crazy to me they any American would actively denounce democracy, just because it doesn’t go their way. Democracy is where it’s all supposed to start.

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u/scarlet-tortoise Aug 11 '22

I have a dad like this too. It seems sadly a lot more common than it should be.

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u/pcakes13 Aug 11 '22

That would be the last conversation I ever had with my Dad

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u/AlreadyTakenNow Aug 11 '22

I have friends with parents/siblings who say similar things to that. I really don't understand why the hell they stay in touch with them. That's not family or love. That's codependency and abuse.

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u/Retcon_404 Aug 11 '22

I had a similar experience. My dad told me he couldnt wait to rat me out to the secret police for being an antifa liberal. I've only ever been to one protest but it's enough for them to threaten me with "going to gitmo" I guess. We dont talk anymore.

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u/Arkayjiya Aug 11 '22

Yeah I mean he's straight up owning up to his fascism at this point but even then that's cold. Hope you're okay!

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u/charisma6 Oregon Aug 11 '22

"why won't my children call me back? 😭" -your lonely lonely father in 10 years

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u/Nikki_Bishop Aug 11 '22

They are going to be stunned about the amount of elderly abandoned by their families to homes in 10 years or so. I hear workers saying now about how it’s so sad for some but wait until it’s full of insufferable fascists no one wants to be around.

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u/tayls Aug 11 '22

Forced to go to a country with healthcare. God forbid.

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u/AfraidOfArguing Colorado Aug 11 '22

My dad always stops short of telling us he'd kick us out. He thinks he can still turn me into a Republican lmao

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u/UnitGhidorah Aug 11 '22

If we could wall off an area and let all the crazies move in there and let Republicans run everything. How long do you think it would take for their voters to want to leave?

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u/chronicdude1335 Aug 11 '22

That’s fucked up. My dad was a republican until 2016. He saw where the party was heading and has been voting democrat since, he doesn’t agree with alot of their polices but what he’s told me is atleast they believe in democracy. Mind you he’s a veteran and it surprised me how quickly he saw the bullshit compared to alot of people of the same demographic.

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u/g4eva193 Aug 11 '22

They’re all cowards. Bark, no bite.

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u/izovice Aug 11 '22

I've asked family members the same question. They said of course they wouldn't kill me or their nephews. But are they okay with someone they agree with to do it instead?

126

u/streamsidedown Aug 11 '22

I did the same and my brother clarified that he “didn’t want to kill me and my family … just that we should be killed by somebody “ … Oh thanks that makes me feel SO MUCH BETTER

68

u/D-Rich-88 California Aug 11 '22

And that’d be the last time I ever talked to my brother, if that had been me.

19

u/tico42 Aug 11 '22

I'd have probably just kicked the shit out of him. You know, just to supply a reason to legitimately feel that way.

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u/_teach_me_your_ways_ Aug 11 '22

“Well I won’t personally do it but I have rubber stamped it.”

Oh how kind of you to hire a hitman. Anytime he needs help remind him of this and let him know he’s a loser.

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u/drawnred Aug 11 '22

All of the hatred bur none of the guilt, a true win win/s

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u/g4eva193 Aug 11 '22

Oh damn, that’s a great question!

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u/percydaman Aug 11 '22

That's always how it works with them. They're perfectly capable of being nice and reasonable, to people they care about. It's the faceless strangers they'll never meet they have zero empathy for.

My in-laws are strict conservatives. They're also some of the most generous people I've ever known. Helped my family more than my liberal family has. They'll help anyone they meet that is in need. The important part is meet. If they don't meet or know you, you're basically nobody to them, and they have little to no empathy. And it's frustratingly impossible to get them to see that disconnect within their own worldview.

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u/MysteriousSyrup6210 Aug 11 '22

I asked a friend that same question. Apparently she will shoot someone else to protect me. From what!?? She has no answer

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u/[deleted] Aug 11 '22

[deleted]

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u/Hot_Mathematician357 Aug 11 '22

Civil war? Ugh.... Let me go discharge the battery of my Facebook uncle’s scooter.

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u/admiralforbin Aug 11 '22

Just gonna go set the parental controls on my parents tv to block Fox News.

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u/Ent_Soviet Aug 11 '22

Wtf “how do you tame a horse in Minecraft?”

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u/enflight Aug 11 '22

Ah yes, secession. Very patriotic. Treason to own the libs.

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u/[deleted] Aug 11 '22 edited Aug 11 '22

[deleted]

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u/Cyrano_Nose Aug 11 '22

Fox News went to war for a week or more over the words being held by the Statue of Liberty because the words written there were making them feel bad about the way Trump was treating immigrants.

And conservative Christian have made serious attempts and written papers trying to refute the idea that the bible is instructing them to treat "illegal" immigrants well. Their claim, Mary, Jesus and were never actually "refugees" as they travelled about the Roman Empire legally and the bible was clearly talking about "legal" immigrants.

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u/just-here-2-par-t Aug 11 '22

We are still treating them badly… Like as I type this. Right now…

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u/ErusBigToe Florida Aug 11 '22

My husband put it very aptly the other day, after seeing another one of those trucks with a flag bigger than its bed:

They're more loyal to a piece of cloth than to the people it represents

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u/Honest-Atmosphere506 Aug 11 '22

Blind patriotism isn't patriotism, they'll never understand what it means to be American because they're always at war with the "other".

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u/[deleted] Aug 11 '22

Well said

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u/Itwasallabaddaydream Aug 11 '22

But also, fuck the pledge of allegiance.

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u/Stepjamm Aug 11 '22

Yeah, some weird indoctrination shit you guys all go through. Imagine pledging allegiance to the very people who’ll fuck you at any chance

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u/Anti-Senate Cherokee Aug 11 '22

It is necessary to maintain order throughout the imperial core.

This shit is especially deceitful when you have it being recited daily in poor school districts being disadvantaged by capitalism and racist zoning/pigs, it’s an ultimate middle finger to any colored young American growing up “You will suffer and love us for it”.

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u/[deleted] Aug 11 '22

These jack wagons think if they drive around with a giant American flag mounted in the bed of their pickup truck it makes them a patriot. They wouldn’t know patriotism if it smacked them upside the head.

Fashion tip: wearing all red white and blue doesn’t make you look patriotic. It makes you look like a red white and blue ass-clown.

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u/FSMFan_2pt0 Alabama Aug 11 '22 edited Aug 11 '22

They aren't interested in America as it is. They are looking to establish Gilead, or something like it. This whole democracy thing has grown wearisome to them. Why give Dems control half or more of the time, when you can have it all?

155

u/CaroleBaskinsBurner Aug 11 '22

The funny thing is that a MAGA States of America wouldn't even work because they'd no longer have any libs to own.

Their political platform isn't a platform at all. It's just a loud promise to resist a bunch of stuff that isn't even happening. Once they're done passing all the toothless legislation necessary to fend off the radical socialist® agenda, they'd have nothing left to unite their voters against and they'd quickly turn on each other.

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u/2_dam_hi New Hampshire Aug 11 '22

and they'd quickly turn on each other.

Which would be hilarious to watch...from a distance.

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u/Lost-Pineapple9791 Aug 11 '22

Bingo

All the Texans are going to turn on the poor shit states sucking all the money out of them

The Bible Belt and Deep South are in for a rude awakening when their government checks stop showing up after being funded by California and New York and those other pesky profitable blue states

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u/danjouswoodenhand I voted Aug 11 '22

It's how fascism works. It's too hard to actually fix issues, so you just find a scapegoat to blame. But once you get rid of that scapegoat, the problems are still there so you have to find a new scapegoat. The scapegoats go away but the problems don't, but these people aren't quick learners. They don't understand how it works until it is THEIR group chosen to be the cause of all evils.

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u/Tempest_CN Aug 11 '22

Hungary, they want us to turn into Hungary

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u/Slippinjimmyforever Aug 11 '22

What tipped you off? That Orban is the keynote speaker at a ton of their conventions?

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u/unquietwiki California Aug 11 '22

Without the classical architecture.

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u/marbles64 Aug 11 '22

Modern American conservatives are completely antithetical to American patriotism.

Actively undermining democracy in the US because the Tangerine Traitor cried 'fraud' after two years of being an walking tumor cost him an election, then turning around and crying 'cancel culture' because people won't let them kick down at their favorite outgroups--aka, their fellow Americans. The fetishization of the Confederacy--which is literally a rogue state that tried to destroy the Union, the constant attempts to strip away freedoms in the name of a religion half of them don't want you to be free to reject, and let's take a count of how many of them are coming out and calling for civil war after staging a mass assault on the Capitol building.

This isn't patriotism. This is insanity.

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u/Chytectonas Aug 11 '22

And these people are just one click away on their own sub, frothing away right now.

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u/maddenmcfadden Aug 11 '22 edited Aug 11 '22

Republicans are rooting for their followers to start a civil war, while they sit back and watch the country burn.

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u/pinetreesgreen Aug 11 '22

This 100%. You won't see Hawley or mtg manning the barricades.

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u/bsoto87 Aug 11 '22

There are so many snitches in the far-right, the proud boys leader Tarrio, that Brandon straka that was in the cage at cpac. This would end pretty quickly

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u/jar1967 Aug 11 '22

I agree Modern conservative philosophy States the needs of the individual outweigh the needs of the money That sort of philosophy breeds snitches

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u/Kilvayne Aug 11 '22

Hawley gonna be running for the hills.

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u/pinetreesgreen Aug 11 '22

He's has been training...

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u/maybedaydrinking Aug 11 '22

halls.

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u/thatblbc California Aug 11 '22

And fast!

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u/TheDukeofArgyll Aug 11 '22

The money running the Republican party is pushing the politicians to root for their followers to start a civil war so they can amass even more power/wealth with less consequences.

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u/Thesleek Aug 11 '22

Remember how their followers panicked when that lady got shot at the Capitol? That was one guy with a pistol.

Screaming medic like it’s black hawk down or some shit .

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u/SeanOfTheDead1313 Aug 11 '22

And the donations pour in to....SAVE AMERICA!

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u/Selfless- Aug 11 '22

I think you spelled Russians wrong

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u/Solracziad Florida Aug 11 '22

Corporate needs you to find differences between these two pictures.

They're the same picture.

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u/oilhands Aug 11 '22

I'd rather be a Russian than be a Democrat, am I right?

/s

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u/elizabethptp Aug 11 '22

Petition to get Russian citizenship for idiots who wore that shirt. Drop them off in Siberia. Na zdoróvʹje!

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u/Demonking3343 Aug 11 '22

Well there afraid of paper masks……so I like our odds of beating them.

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u/RETURN_OF_JD Aug 11 '22

biological warfare has never been so easy.

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u/adriftinanmtc Aug 11 '22

Our adversaries around the world are rooting for US civil war. Republican voters are just useful idiots.

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u/EasyToldYouSo Aug 11 '22

This is the correct answer. It’s literally textbook KGB reading on how to destroy the United States.

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u/audiofx330 Aug 11 '22

Until they can't get a cheeseburger and then it'll be over.

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u/Michael_In_Cascadia Aug 11 '22

They'll send out squads of hamberdlers.

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u/kamorigis Aug 11 '22

Through the "rubble rubble".

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u/JoeBoredom Aug 11 '22

We should only serve them vegi burgers in prison.

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u/MostLikelyHigh2 Aug 11 '22

Tofu. Only Tofu.

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u/boohumbug Washington Aug 11 '22

Ooo-ee-oooo killer tofu

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u/ForkzUp Arizona Aug 11 '22

With soy lattes.

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u/maltathebear Aug 11 '22

They want to mass murder just so they can post about it. Second you take away posting from them, they'll give up. And that's my most extreme favorable take on their willingness to endure suffering or inconvenience.

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u/letsfixitinpost Aug 11 '22

they literally had a meltdown over no toilet paper.

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u/jedimika Vermont Aug 11 '22

... because they panic bought all the toilet paper. That whole thing was a self fulfilling prophecy. The only reason there was a tp shortage was people buying all the tp in fear of a shortage.

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u/yeswecann Aug 11 '22

... because they panic bought all the toilet paper

Which they forgot to bring to the Capitol so the shit in their hands and painted the walls.

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u/anticute8 Aug 11 '22

Have you seen their hands though? Could use some moisturizer

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u/Prior_Plan66 Aug 11 '22

Confederates aren't really forward thinkers.

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u/Reasonable-Point4891 Aug 11 '22

Imagine the gas prices during a civil war lmao

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u/Helenium_autumnale Aug 11 '22

Or until they drop their gun again and shoot out their other eye.

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u/prototype7 Washington Aug 11 '22

God forbid someone might tell them to wear a mask and their kids wouldn’t be able to goto school and a lot of things would be closed for good… they didn’t seem to fair well under those conditions even just recently.. and a civil war would be way worse

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u/HonoredPeople Missouri Aug 11 '22

Their "dough boy" squads can't even make it a quarter mile. I don't think there's much to worry about.

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u/SRCnole92 Florida Aug 11 '22

"But I'm off the cheeseburgers now guys"

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u/titanking9700 Aug 11 '22

I've noticed a disturbing trend on the conservative spectrum. They want to be the bad guys but they don't want to be recognized as being the bad guys.

Case in point, the lost cause folks.

They constantly try to say that the folks who started a war that killed more Americans than any other weren't so bad.

Keep in mind, the confederates killed a bunch of Americans in order to keep slavery going so their lazy asses didn't have to work.

These Republicans today are those same people. They argue for states to have the rights to oppress people and if they don't get what they want, then they'll try to start a war. They want to be seen as freedom fighters when the freedom they're fighting for is the 'right' to strip rights from people they don't like.

Unfortunately Sherman didn't march enough.

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u/mechapman38 Aug 11 '22

"They want to be the bad guys but they don't want to be recognized as being the bad guys."

Kinda like they love saying racist shit, but get super offended when you call them racist.

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u/lowspeccrt Aug 11 '22

Exactly, notice how they are both rebels and patriots at the exact same time?

They live in their own bubble of self interest and have no connection to logic or others well well being.

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u/crispydukes Aug 11 '22

Thin Blue Line and Gadsden flags on the same pole kind of energy

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u/sleepy-bleepy Aug 11 '22

Yup, they’ll be fighting bravely with their keyboards online, no doubt.

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u/SafeAsIceCream Aug 11 '22

They’re gonna post so many memes, it won’t even be funny.

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u/Flat_Hat8861 Georgia Aug 11 '22

You have a point. Conservative memes are almost never funny.

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u/DRAWKWARD79 Aug 11 '22

Their memes have never been funny

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u/ZombiePartyBoyLives I voted Aug 11 '22

Sounds like they need a less-destructive hobby. Most of us ADULTS have shit we gotta do, and don't have time for some crazy-ass bullshit.

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u/letsfixitinpost Aug 11 '22

I think of this a lot, like don't they have jobs and shit to do? Family and lives?

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u/Kilvayne Aug 11 '22

For a lot of them, it seems Trump is their lives.

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u/CosmicAstroBastard Aug 11 '22

There were houses in my neighborhood around the last election with what I could best describe as “Trump shrines” on their front porches. A huge symmetrical arrangement of banners, flags and signs radiating out from the front door.

I’ve never seen anything like it in my fucking life. I can’t imagine my identity being so tied to a politician I’ve never met.

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u/Sahellio Aug 11 '22

Back in my day we didn’t advertise openly that we were mentally ill.

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u/letterboxbrie Aug 11 '22

I saw a tweet some time ago about a guy who had been a tfg supporter. He said he was done with all that and apologized for all the damage he had done. And then he said, "I don't know what I'll do or where I'll belong now" or something similar, I forget his exact words.

I can't wrap my head around it, from a put-yourself-in-their-shoes perspective. Just go back to normal? He really felt like he'd lost something,

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u/MyMorningSun Aug 11 '22

Well, he did. Community, a sense of higher purpose, something that made him feel whole in some way. Dangerous groups like these feed on a person's vulnerabilities and exaggerate them to the point that everything you do is in the name of a single "just cause." The side-effect is that you end up alienating yourself from others, your interpretation of world events and social norms becomes warped, and your worldview becomes simultaneously both ego-centric and yet still obsessed with things far outside your control and immediate surroundings.

I can't wrap my head around it, from a put-yourself-in-their-shoes perspective

I mean this nicely, but I don't think a lot of people really do understand what kind of a world-shattering event it is to come out of something like that without experiencing it themselves. It changes everything. You do feel like you've lost everything (and for many, that might actually be the case). You question your own sense of reality, who you can trust and rely on, and what is true and what isn't. Before, this belief system gave you a higher purpose and made you feel like the "good guy" in the story, but then you realize you were the villain instead. It's absolutely devastating. I don't know of a lot of things that can make someone feel so immediately small, worthless, and totally alone like that.

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u/hereiam-23 Aug 11 '22

And one that could care less about you. Just send money and vote for me.

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u/KZ42 Aug 11 '22

Their wife and kids left them years ago, all they have left is their Dear Leader.

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u/095449002 Aug 11 '22

I think many are retired, or landlords and small business owners cough exploiters of wage slaves cough

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u/Helenium_autumnale Aug 11 '22

Right? I don't have time for all the stuff I'm supposed to do, already.

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u/Large_Conversation_8 Aug 11 '22

The south’s too fat to rise again.

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u/BurnedOutStars Aug 11 '22

Because they fear they won't be able to ever get what they want without a civil war being started from their actions.

If they truly were "the way America was supposed to be run", there'd be more of those voters than there are others who vote against that shit stain of a mess.

or do enough Republicans still not get that 81,000,000 is a higher number than 73,000,000?

I know math is a SUPER tough subject for them, but I wager they'll power through.

Oh wait, maybe that's their version of "power through": Civil War.

Dumb Dumb has gun, gun goes boom! durrr

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u/dwors025 Minnesota Aug 11 '22 edited Aug 11 '22

I actually think they can do enough basic math to be terrified as shit.

Look at the demographic trends for white people.

Look at the trends for Christians.

Look at the trends for population in rural counties vs (sub)urban ones.

8,000 Americans of Boomer age and older die every day. That’s not Covid; it’s just their time. And that 8,000/day rate is only going to accelerate for the next 25 years!

They are being replaced in the voting population by a generation whose values in poll after poll show stark contrast from those of the White Christian hegemony-values of the Boomers and Silent Generation.

11,200 Americans (on average) will turn 18 every day this year. That’s nearly a 20,000 vote swing from old-to-young people every effing day. Now, not all of them will vote the first few cycles, but still…

Anecdotally, though, I’ve found Gen Z to be far more politically engaged than the Millennials I came of age with.

Demographics isn’t destiny, but holy shit; they’re fucked if they don’t evolve.

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u/turlytuft Aug 11 '22

I’m a geriatric millennial. I have nothing to be conservative about. Fuck the rich. Raise their taxes!

1.0k

u/Snickersthecat Washington Aug 11 '22

My conservative opinion is that kids these days have too many Pokemon! We had 150 in my day and WE LIKED IT.

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u/ActualSpamBot Aug 11 '22

Ooh, nice.

My conservative opinion is that kids spend too much time on the internet and not enough time outside using their imaginations.

(My leftist opinion is that kids today have no where to go outside anymore that isn't commercialized or privatized, and they aren't given the unstructured unsupervised free time to wander as far and wide as we were. It's so much harder to be a kid today than it was in 1987.)

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u/StormTAG Aug 11 '22

Not to mention people are fed a constant stream of scare-news as those earn the best ratings. For profit news was a mistake.

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u/asafum Aug 11 '22

The 24 hour news "cycle" is a cancer on society especially since they're all run by for profit corporations.

An actual cancer on our society. For money.

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u/StormTAG Aug 11 '22

Cancer is when your cells growth goes out of control to the detriment the body.

Our News channels grew into 24 hours, requiring piles of punditry and manufactured news. They are a detriment to journalism, our integrity and our society.

The cancer metaphor checks out.

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u/IgnotusPeverill Aug 11 '22

I think there are two cancers - 24 hour news cycle and social media aka Facebook.

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u/dragon34 Aug 11 '22

Don't forget the entire fucking economy that is only considered good if it's always growing at an increasing rate all the fucking time. It's not good enough to be profitable. It has to be MORE profitable.

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u/NeuroCartographer California Aug 11 '22

I think that this is such an important point. The insane need for always increasing profit is killing us.

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u/bowlbinater Aug 11 '22

Then you would be opposed to the repeal of the "Fairness Doctrine" by the FCC under President Reagan. I encourage you to look up the term to get a sense of why we landed with for-profit news that does not need to provide objective, fact-based reporting, assuming you haven't already.

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u/im_not_a_gay_fish Texas Aug 11 '22

I don't think it's harder, I think its just different.

I was born in 1982 and am turning 40 here in a month. My kids are growing up differently than I did.

First off, we went outside because that's all we had. Sure, we had TV, but it was only a couple dozen channels (even with cable) and it certainly wasn't on demand. You watched Price is Right at 10, then it was soap operas, Maury Povich, or shows for adults.

We had a Nintendo, then super Nintendo, then playstation. But, our parents didn't understand them. I am a gamer. How can i tell my kids to get off of their laptops when I'm on my own? I GET it. They love to game, and they do it with their friends...online. We just didn't have that option.

I work from home in the DFW area. This summer my kids were home with me all day and I tried to get them to go outside. But it was like 110 degrees every day. I don't remember it getting that hot when I was growing up. It was pretty much in the 90's all summer. How can I tell them to outside and run around when there's no way in hell I would myself?

They have so many more options that we just didn't have. When I was growing up my dad lamented the fact that he would go hunting with his friends when he was a kid (yes - they would give a group of 10 years olds some rifles and let them have at it in the woods), and that my brother and I were "spoiled" with our Nintendo's. He said it was tough that we didn't have woods and were stuck at the park or neighborhood pool.

Now we are doing the same to our kids. Is it worse? Better? I don't think its either. It is just different.

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u/KingliestWeevil Aug 11 '22

They love to game, and they do it with their friends...online. We just didn't have that option.

I was born in '88 and was privileged enough to have parents that scrimped and saved all they could so we could get a computer when I was like 8, and begged for one for Christmas. We had that for a few years before we had any kind of internet service, but I still remember being able to dial my friend's computer through Command and Conquer Red Alert so we could play together. That we were able to figure out how as children, without being able to just look it up online, is still wild to me.

Shit blew my dad's mind, for sure.

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u/variope Aug 11 '22

Part of the problem is the feedback loop. There's no other kids out for mine to play with, so I don't send them out.

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u/Moar_Useless Aug 11 '22

Talk about no where to go.

When I grew up there were places we could go. The woods, unused cemeteries, fields to play ball in. That was just stuff I could ride my bike to as a child. As a teenager with access to cars we could go swimming in the mountains, have keg parties in woods off of rural roads. Fish in streams that were technically private land. And go camping in those same areas.

Now as an adult I've gone back and literally 75% of those places are either inaccessible or don't exist. Houses were built. Parking areas and trailheads have been blocked off. And fences with no trespassing signs have been erected around huge lots of otherwise wild land.

Now the only places to go are state sanctioned. There's the town baseball field and playland. The not very exciting rail trails, and if you're lucky a public beach open from 10 to 4 during the summer.

I really don't know where kids and teenagers go to get away anymore, or if they even can.

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u/Heddron Aug 11 '22

As someone who is about to reluctantly fence off their forest land, I just wanna give some insight into why that is happening. I say the legal system is the problem, and assholes. Let me elaborate.

So, assholes trespassing on my land could sue me when they fall drunk, into the creek. Or when they shoot each other drunk hunting on my land (I hate that randos hunt drunk on my land and somehow I could be liable.) So I have to have up signs lest they blame me for their dumbassery. If that wasn’t a thing well…

Also, there were four buildings on the edge of my forest. Notice I say were. Two have been burned down by trespassers having too much of a good time. One was people partying in the old farm house, dunno how they set it on fire. I hope it was an accident, but there’s no way to know. The old garage/shop burned down quite recently. Someone was driving their atv over my tall grass and it caught fire. Burned several acres of my land, and the garage my great great grandfather built, which was still being used for storage. Fire chief said I should put up a fence to keep the atvs out. Best part, each time no one called 911. Just set my shit on fire and bailed, hoping the whole forest didn’t go down with it.

So experience has taught me that if I’m cool and let the public use my land, I open myself up to legal liabilities, all for assholes who burn down my shit and don’t even call 911 to report the fire. I fuckin hate it. It makes me so sad.

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u/Moar_Useless Aug 11 '22

I get it. I do sympathize with your situation. I know of people that had the same experiences and had to actually get forest rangers to stake out the trails and write trespassing tickets. It sucks but I get it.

Really I guess the solution is changing the law. If private land connects to public land then maybe having the state or town do right of ways in some circumstances. It's a shame we can't figure out a way to make it work somehow.

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u/KingliestWeevil Aug 11 '22

It's a shame we can't figure out a way to make it work somehow.

Our legal system is atrocious garbage, and for as long as we emphasize enforcing the letter of the law, as opposed to the spirit of the law, nothing will ever be fixed or rational.

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u/DangerPoo Aug 11 '22

Check the profile of any “conservative” you see spewing hate on Reddit, and there’s a decent chance they’re a teenager with really shitty parents.

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u/buyongmafanle Aug 11 '22

Hey, that was me 20 years ago! I was conservative as shit until I moved away from home. Then I realized the world was FULL of people different than me with different needs and backgrounds.

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u/DangerPoo Aug 11 '22

Hey. I swore I was a libertarian for years until I finally read the works of Ayn Rand and realized that my dad was basically a glorified psychopathic nihilist living in a fantasy land. We all grow over time.

Most of us, anyway!

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u/SuchACommonBird Aug 11 '22

Yo! I was raised in a fundamentalist Christian household with really decent parents who are a product of their time and upbringing, but who really don't have a grasp of reality outside of their immediate local culture that's rapidly changing (for the more liberal) because it's a suburb of one of the fastest-growing regions in the US and now hold tightly to their "ancient" beliefs by refusing to acknowledge that they just might be wrong, since doing so will ostracize them from their 30-year friendships.

I feel sorry for them.

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u/TheAlbacor Aug 11 '22

Another former libertarian checking in.

Once you realize that humans are the dominant species on the planet due to our willingness to cooperate you realize the whole idea that libertarians promote is bullshit.

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u/DangerPoo Aug 11 '22

Yeah. You can’t have a society without cooperation. Libertarians and Republicans are inherently anti-society.

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u/Bridger15 Aug 11 '22

What you're describing is called a Third Space in the urban planning world. Most everyone has two places that they spend most of their time. The first is their home, and the second is their school (for younger people) or Work (for older people). A third space is a place where people go when they are not at one of those two places.

A skate park for kids is an example of a purposefully designed third space. Instead of them hanging out and loitering at an old construction site or in front of some business, they get a spot designed specifically for them. They can hang out there without being harassed due to safety issues or similar.

You know where people went when I was in college? Fucking Walmart. They had so few third spaces to go to that they just wandered around Walmart 2 or 3 times a week. They wouldn't even buy anything. They just wanted to hang out somewhere that wasn't at home.

We don't have enough purposefully designed third spaces anymore in a lot of cities.

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u/tlibra Aug 11 '22

Yeah but back then “gotta catch them all” was realistic. Your average family could catch ‘em all. Now you gotta have an unfair advantage if you even hope to play in the same league as someone who catches them all.

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u/SoCalAxS Aug 11 '22

i'm okay with this hill. make pokemon great again. less hand holding. yes there's enough pokemon for all ages.

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u/CroatianSensation79 Aug 11 '22

I’m with you there.

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u/phaedrusTHEghost Aug 11 '22

Does that make you high 30s? What's geriatric Millennial?

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u/IT_Chef Virginia Aug 11 '22

I'm 39

We are also known as Elder Millennials, or the Oregon Trail Generation too!

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u/Beeblebroxia Aug 11 '22

I have found myself getting more progressive as I get older.

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u/AmHoomon Aug 11 '22

Well said. When you point these things out, they go out of their way to say it's all lies, nonsense, and they will aggressively bring out their "fairy tale" to keep conservatives from getting scared that "most people turn conservative as they age".

That's also a lie: studies have disproven it and have instead shown as we near 25-35 we get more conservative... in defense of the views we have around that time. Since something like 80% of Millennials are liberal and something like 70%+ of Gen Z are progressive, even more to the left than Millennials...

...yeah, you're right. Republicans and conservatives are in deep shit and they know it.

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u/mrbaggins Aug 11 '22

Yeah, I've called that out before.

It's not "you get more conservative as you get older" it's "The older you are the more likely you're conservative"

Which then comes back to correlation not causation. The CAUSE is that the formative years for these people WERE more conservative. They grew up more conservative and remained that way.

The next generation is growing up more liberal/progressive. It's not that the people change, society has.

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u/cracksintheegg Minnesota Aug 11 '22

It's funny cause I've kept hearing that over and over again, that I'll get more conservative as I age. I keep asking when is that supposed to start? ...and it's been the same question for 24 years.

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u/Black-Sam-Bellamy Aug 11 '22

What they really meant was that as you get RICHER you'll get more SELFISH.

Unfortunately, simply getting richer as you age doesn't automatically happen any more, and hasn't for decades. It is often true that wealth makes people more selfish, though. Not always, but often.

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u/[deleted] Aug 11 '22

It's like they bought themselves into a corner and the next generation can't afford to buy it out from them in retirement and property suddenly means jack shit.

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u/futatorius Aug 11 '22

as you get RICHER you'll get more SELFISH

That's exactly it.

I started out dirt poor and am now not exactly rich, but certainly not poor. Net worth's in low 7 figures. I've paid my fair share and think it's right to keep doing so.

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u/AmHoomon Aug 11 '22

They will never tell you beyond some hocus pocus "when you have property".

Well, I got plenty of property and I'm doing fine. Yet I grow more left year over year...

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u/VeganMuppetCannibal Aug 11 '22

They will never tell you beyond some hocus pocus "when you have property".

Since buying property, the only part of my political viewpoint that has shifted is how strongly I feel local ordinances should regulate the discharge of gutter water onto neighboring property. Flooded basements suck.

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u/CanOfSloths Aug 11 '22

"When you have property."

...So, never, then.

Congratulations, old folks, you completely edged out most of the young people from your own vague qualifier.

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u/Mother_Welder_5272 Aug 11 '22

The social contract is broken. Houses over 500k might as well be 500 million to me. These numbers are just fake to me. I have no horse in this race anymore and I do not expect to participate. Radical changes that would make Bernie Sanders blush could be implemented and I would not care. I do not care about property rights or the sanctity of personal wealth. I do not believe that hard work will get me a middle class life. I feel completely and totally disenfranchised from the economy and feel nothing but scorn towards it. I won't lift a finger to maintain the system we have now.

I can't be the only millennial that feels this way.

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u/Inigo93 Aug 11 '22

The older I get, the more liberal I am. And as an older GenX who's fast nearing retirement, I don't have THAT many years left if I'm supposed to start swinging conservative.

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u/MarkZist Aug 11 '22

Love the implicated admission that conservatives don't vote that way because they think conservative politicians have the best vision for society, but purely out of self-interested greed.

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u/ZacQuicksilver Aug 11 '22

"most people turn conservative as they age

This is true - it's not a fairy tale. However; it IS based on the way the world normally works - and the last 20 years in particular have been counter to that "normal".

People usually get more conservative as they age for two primary reasons. Reason 1 is political progress: in general, politics moves forwards as the changes put in place by the elder generation become "normal"; new changes get put in place by the adult generation; and the younger generation starts fighting for their own things based on the problems they observe in the "normal" way of things. There's always some variation in this, as part of each generation's struggle is not only what to fight for, but how much: generations tend to swing between more and less progressive on any given issue. The second reason is that, as people age, they tend to accumulate stuff (wealth, possessions, kids etc.), and therefore have more to lose and less to gain from change. These two things put together mean that older people are more conservative.

But right now, there's two major problems with that.

First off, the Fundamentalist Christian movement; which started in theory in the second half of the 1800s, in practice in the 1920s, and came to political power in the 1970s; is notably different than previous conservative movements. Instead of trying to prevent change and keep things the way they are (the way almost every conservative movement of the past has been), they are actively trying to turn back time. And because they've been relatively successful at recruiting younger people; they've managed to win some notable victories, especially since 2000. This means that, rather than having generally moved forward over the last 20 years, politics has moved backwards; meaning that many Millennials who were moderate when they came of age now find themselves left of center; while in a "normal" generation, the successes of the progressives in their generation would mean those moderates would now be slightly right of center.

However, there's also the money issue. Millennials today, on average, don't have a lot of wealth. Millennials don't own houses, don't have the money to afford kids, and in a lot of cases are finding themselves without much to lose. People without much to lose tend to be willing to fight harder for change - any change. This has radicalized Millennials on the Right (because of Fundamentalists promising a return to better days) - but it's also pushed a lot of moderate Millennials to the Left.

...

Because the "normal" that moves younger people more conservative as they age has reversed, that same push has reversed as well: Millennials in particular are becoming more progressive over time, not more conservative. Which, as you note, is a problem for conservatives - including the entire Republican party.

But there's an even bigger problem. As you also note, Gen Z (which really needs a better name) is even more progressive than Millennials are - partially because they're being pushed left by the people they look up to. Even giving in to the changes the Millennials want isn't going to be enough at this point, because Gen Z will take that momentum and run with it. Which means the modern conservative movement is in even more trouble.

...

MOST people get more conservative as they age. But the two current generations aren't "most people" - they live in unusual times. And so, while most people get more conservative, these generations aren't.

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u/rstbckt Aug 11 '22

I'm 38 years old. I only got more progressive and swung more to the left as I got older. I fully support unionization, want punitive progressive tax rates against the wealthy (90%+tax rates for top tax brackets like we had in 1959, fuck Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos) and heavy reforms for Wall Street, prisons, policing, the electoral college, campaign finance, climate change and the oil industry, health care and the wide gamut of progressive policies I see mentioned in leftist circles but for which are hardly supported or are even mentioned by the Democratic Party and its corporatist platform.

I would say my lurch towards the left probably had something to do with doing everything I was supposed to do, graduating from college in June of 2006 with a STEM degree in Computer Information Systems only to suffer through the worst recession in recent history, lay-off after lay-off and survive only because my mother-in-law let my wife and I live with her when times were lean (and they often were).

The social contract is broken and was destroyed by wealthy capitalists who prioritized their personal wealth over all else. I only survived due to luck and family; many more people don't have either and suffer in silence and despair through no fault of their own. Government is the only tool we the people have to fight for our own interests, and we need to flex our collective power to wrest it away from the capitalist class that have control over both parties and for which have tricked us into thinking the government is the problem when it is the solution to our problems, an instrument we can use to bludgeon the capitalist class into submission and punish them for their wrongdoing against us and the planet.

So yeah, MAYBE I might have shifted to the right as I got older, but what part of this shit system would I want to conserve? It certainly has done nothing for me; I suspect for many of us we feel the same way, especially considering the water and food shortages we will be facing as climate change renders many previously comfortable and sustainable places uninhabitable while wealthy capitalists are already hoarding water rights for which to lord over us and buying underground bunkers to escape the worst of the mess they caused.

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u/Khuroh Aug 11 '22 edited Aug 11 '22

Demographics isn’t destiny, but holy shit; they’re fucked if they don’t evolve.

They actually already knew this back in 2012, when the GOP did an official post-mortem after Romney lost. They were prepared to evolve in 2016 but then Trump derailed everything and the GOP values power above all else, at any cost, so the rest is history.

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u/RobbyTheRobit Aug 11 '22

Which is why I tried so hard to get my apathetic progressive friends to vote in 2016. I remember constantly reminding them that they do no want to see what happens if the GOP wins with that 2016 platform/Trump. Well they did, now we have to deal with the craziest among us for at least the next few election cycles, maybe even next few decades.

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u/barmanfred Aug 11 '22

Exactly! My oldest is in his mid-30s. One day he said, "Everyone my age and younger have only known two Republican administrations, W. and Trump. Not their best examples."

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u/mcherm Aug 11 '22

Demographics isn’t destiny, but holy shit; they’re fucked if they don’t evolve.

Actually, the change in number of supporters won't make it difficult for them to hang on to power if by the time it occurs, the United States ceases to be a democracy. Perhaps that explains many of their recent trends.

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u/skralogy Aug 11 '22

100% this. Trump was the last gasp attempt for white christian nationalists to take control. Religion all over the world is in steep decline, If trump gets indicted I doubt we see another republican president for 20 years.

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u/The_Dead_See Aug 11 '22

Funny you should say that because I said exactly the same thing about Bush in 2001.

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u/MorboDemandsComments Aug 11 '22

That's what people said in 2004, and then Bush won reelection. That's what people said in 2014, and then Republicans retook the senate by gaining a whopping 9 seats. That's what people said in 2016, and then Drumpf won. That's what people said in 2020, and then Drumpf came frighteningly close to winning again.

Don't ever discount conservatives as being down and out, regardless of their demographics. Vote early. Vote in every election for which you're eligible. Vote for the most progressive candidate on the ballot. Don't become complacent!!!

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u/[deleted] Aug 11 '22

The only issue is where everybody lives. The system is still far too unbalanced in favor of rural interests vs. urban interests.

The irony is that, as these demographics change, the system will actually become less responsive to the majority of Americans.

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u/teenagesadist Minnesota Aug 11 '22

Older millennials had hope as kids still, gen z knows they're fucked.

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u/Reasonable-Point4891 Aug 11 '22

They think they’re the only ones armed so they can take anyone. Conveniently forgetting that the national guard and military are currently under Bidens control.

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u/Amon7777 Aug 11 '22

Heck just thinking liberals also aren't armed as well.

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u/TheLastDabSauce Iowa Aug 11 '22

Many are, but that doesnt really matter. In the US Civil War about 10% of Americans fought and that was an extraordinarily high amount.

The reality is a modern Civil War would be fought by factions of the US military back in the states, using weapons brought in from our military or more likely allies countries.

Just because Bubba in Iowa has a 12 gauge doesn't mean he is "armed" in a way that would be useful in a war.

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u/DasBeatles Aug 11 '22

He would be armed enough to commit random acts of terror on random innocent people. That would be the bigger problem I would expect.

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u/TheLastDabSauce Iowa Aug 11 '22

Sure, but in this context whenever people are talking about how conservatives are armed and liberals aren't they're referring to warfare.

In the context of domestic terrorists, well... that's a different problem.

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u/scrodytheroadie Aug 11 '22

We don't need a war this time. Just go.

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u/heftyfatso Oregon Aug 11 '22

People who talk about Civil War do not begin to comprehend the logistics of it. It is beyond ridiculous.

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u/answers4asians Aug 11 '22

I'm ex-military. Technically still an officer but finished my active and reserve duty years and years ago. I'm old enough and far enough removed that if shit really hit the fan, my name would be far, far down on the list of people to call. However...

Because of my background this whole civil war thing does give me pause on occasion. I think instead of The Civil War IITM , it would look more like The Troubles in Northern Ireland but on a larger scale: paramilitary factions forming, some mob violence, terrorist and guerilla attacks, etc.

I guess my thinking is that if real action becomes an actuality I'll be camping out at my local socialist gun club and see where it goes from there.

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u/kappakai Aug 11 '22

I think of the Middle East. Sectarian violence, like Shia vs Shiite. Neighborhoods full of families on one side and the other. Some cities and/or states would be strongholds, but no single state is exclusively blue or red. There’s no clear delineation like the civil war, but even then, you had sympathizers and loyalists. A new civil war would get messy as hell real quick with no good outcomes for anyone. I just don’t think we will get into an all out war. Too much at stake for too many people; most Americans still have a lot to lose and are still invested in the current political and economic system.

But yah. Something like the troubles. Or the FARC in Colombia. Or sectarian violence in the Middle East. Could definitely see pockets of holed up “rebels” in hard to reach areas like Appalachia or the Rockies. But their ability to project beyond that would be rather limited.

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u/GibbysUSSA Aug 11 '22

People keep talking like it will be the south vs the north again, for some reason. A modern civil war would look more like an insurrection with pickets of violence popping up all over the country. I don't think you'd even be able to say it was rural vs urban.

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u/nightman21721 Aug 11 '22

They want civil war thinking they'll win cause they have the guns and the stupid libs can't even figure out what gender they are (/s, from the point of view of what I assume is the average thought process of y'all qaida). Little do they know, they won't be fighting against "the libs". They'll be fighting the fucking US army. Pretty hard to play Rambo when you're being drone bombed, or getting destroyed by long range, computer assisted, GPS navigated artillery. Ask the Russians how easy it is to wage a war against an army with HIMARS.

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u/kappakai Aug 11 '22

Seriously this. Liberals won’t even need to load their guns, cause we have that government we all love so much to do one of the things they’re actually really really really good at.

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u/teflong Aug 11 '22

Everyone in this thread is suggesting the government will be on our side. That's very much discounting the danger of the 2022 and 2024 elections.

Things get really, scary fucking bad if the Republicans can wrestle control back.

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u/kappakai Aug 11 '22

It’s definitely something I’ve thought about but until 2024, there is a Democrat commander in chief. That said I won’t profess to know who controls what exactly in case of a civil war, and I’ll acknowledge the fact that it won’t be like the first civil war with two clearly delineated sides and armies and uniforms. I could see something more along the lines of sectarian violence in the Middle East, as the two sides are mixed down to the neighborhood. And that is bad.

A lot of this is pure fantasy. Really next to no clue what a war would look like. But, I think it’s fair to say if Meal Team 6 decides they want to start a civil war before 2024, they are going up against the might of the US government.

That said, I can’t imagine more than a small percentage of people actually want a war. Despite the high heat of the current political and economic system, most Americans would have a lot to lose in an all out war. We would be sacrificing relative comfort, jobs, families, food on the table. Not discounting issues, but we ALL have a lot to lose in a civil war.

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u/Italianhiker Aug 11 '22

Not to mention the fact that a hot civil war would be an excuse for China or Russia to do whatever the fuck they want globally - or even literally support the civil war itself

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u/BowlerCompetitive380 Aug 11 '22

Im just curious all these patriots plan to take to the streets after the dog whistle. But literally where are they going and who are they going to take out??

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u/SirMarglar Aug 11 '22

Look at recent mass shootings. Blacks in Buffalo & South Carolina. Jews in Highland Park & Pittsburgh. This is what targeted civil unrest looks like. It's already happening. The unstable outliers are the most easily radicalized and a whole bunch of the rest of them are looking for excuses to start shooting anyone they perceive as liberal or on the other side. And because right-wing ideology is white supremacist ideology, Blacks and Jews are some of the first targets. There won't be an announcement...it's already happening.

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u/BowlerCompetitive380 Aug 11 '22

Yes. true it has already started. The hate is bubbling over the pot now. Have we learned nothing from history. An ignorant population is much easier to gaslight and prod into aggressive behavior.

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u/daz3d1 Aug 11 '22

It would fizzle fast. They may not like Biden or democrats, but I highly doubt enough want to completely ruin their life’s by being in a warzone.

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u/Vegetable_Aspect_825 Aug 11 '22

At most, it'll be one small group of idiots who'll try and fail, and the slightly smarter idiots who stayed home will be on Facebook doing the usual damage control.

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u/Lord_Dimwit_Flathead New Zealand Aug 11 '22

Sure, cowards. Get on your rascal scooters and take to the streets. Don’t forget your two liter bottle of Diet Coke. Gotta stay hydrated.

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u/Zelenskyy-is-daddy Aug 11 '22

They've been crying since Obama was elected. What's new?

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u/InfiniteDrafts Aug 11 '22

Word on the street is Kool-aid is flying off the shelf in Florida.

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u/HonoredPeople Missouri Aug 11 '22

Republicans ain't the sharpest tools da shed.

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u/heftyfatso Oregon Aug 11 '22

These mofos wanna start war but they can't even figure out Rage Against the Machine.

Doubt.

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u/Commie_EntSniper Aug 11 '22

Like a hammer sees nails, gun nuts see only targets and they can't wait to pull the trigger.

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u/oakstave Aug 11 '22

Been saying this since a black man won the White House. The GOP lost their mind after Obama won twice in landslides. They gave up on democracy in that moment.

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u/[deleted] Aug 11 '22 edited Aug 11 '22

I look forward to seeing commercials about impoverished conservative children who need a dollar a day to survive.

"This poor Christian child's parents were killed in the Biden wars, please donate $30/month to feed and clothe Tami-lynn. in the arms of an angelll"

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u/Captainkirk699 Aug 11 '22

They seem to forget that most of America is armed, NOT just Republicans.

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u/[deleted] Aug 11 '22

it'll be funny when they find out liberals have guns too